FS5: HANDHELD BALANCE Bolex style or Shoulder held - getting under the lens

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plasticam

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My first heavy shooting was with a Bolex Rex 5, I went thru 3 of them and owned a pistol grip for it that I never used, I preferred cupping my right hand under the curved camera body I got a better "latch" that way. With the EX1 and then FS100 I went back to 'Bolex style' big time. Especially with B-roll, the freedom of movement is so much more compelling. With image stabilization and a wide lens it can approximate steadicam and digs into all 3 dimensions.

But since the Bolex - video required filming long takes that can turn your arms to mush, and pretty much the rest of you as well. Neck shoulders.
And something big changed after EX1 / FS100 that I actually had a role in. I made the Cinegrip in 2012 and worked with Sony on an NDA isolating the best ways to
program it. Sony then intro's the FS7 with their own smart grip and now I really need to get that handgrip positioned "just so". I've been workign on it in fsact for 4 years now.
It's almost embarrassing how little I have to show - but I do have something I really like.

Wether you work "Bolex style", Shoulderheld or alot of both- have you ever tried getting your handgrip under the center of the lens/camera?

I've been accused of promulgating this position as some kind of imperial Monroe Doctrine of camera operating which is nonsense but I do reccomend it from alot
personal experience. I like to hold a weight from under the weight not beside it. That just strains my entire body fighting gravity.
The tools have not really existed to let shooters try this Under Lens position. Mitch related yesterday he knew a gifted Cam Op that made his own grip under the lens because he needed that stability. I myself like the position so much Ive invested a lot of time and money to make it a viable new option for the FS5 and 7- right now.

I'm running intro pricing - It's approx $325-350 to get set up this way. It varies a bit between cams. FS5 needs a camera rosette. FS7 needs to be sent in to have glued screws removed (7 day turnaround including shipping). You can try it yourself, sometimes they strip sometimes they don't.

If people find this UL position interesting - I'm here to field your questions and explain what I have and how it works.
 
The trouble is that the camera wants to roll, you would not hold a pelicase from underneath because it would want to flop over.

Clearly holding with a single side handle just produces horrid torque.

So there are many options for holding.. imo the ideal being two hands on handlebars, but then you need a remote or A>C to focus.

My compromise is handlebars and my right hand is both on the focus and my forearm propped against the handle.

S
 
Morgan

Are you a lefty? Yiou mention right hand riding focus.

I've been testing mostly with the FS7 but we've been thru several rounds of beta testing and when mounting the grip directly under the lens with the Dutcharm myself and 2 other vet shooters were in agreement that it felt best on body and reduced the tipple factor best, or the tendancy of the camera to feel tender and shifty on the shoulder.

I have not shot much with handlebars, I dont like them for two reasons, I like to move camera around a lot - from shoulder, to chest, to knee and 'arm jibbing'. I just can't "handle" the bicycle effect.
Also I like my left hand on the lens. Prob just habit but I've never felt the need for my hand to be anywhere but there, it steadies at the source.

Did you have to use a kludge or jury rig to experiment with getting your hand under camera? did you find a way to get the smart grip UL?
 
morgan_moore said:
The trouble is that the camera wants to roll, you would not hold a pelicase from underneath because it would want to flop over.

Ha, but a pelian case is made to hang below the handle for hauling, a camera is made to hold from her pretty waist and the tips of her fingers because she is a dancing partner. ;-)
Click to expand...
 
Im a leftie, but come from stills so had to relearn focus with the right hand.

My rig sits far back so doing focus is not much different from scratching the right ear, which is certainly natural do do with the right hand.

Also ENG cams the right hand is on the lens - I think it just works also as lifting your right hand flatens the shoulder and makes it a better table to sit the camera on.

I did have my FS100 configured 'bolex' style for a while.. and it certainly works for certain styles of shooting with a low mass camera (fs5 FS100) but probably not the FS7/vlock

S
 
I shoot handheld with the grip in my Digital Bolex quite often. Recently added a very lightweight Sirui monopod to the mix which lowers CG like a stabilizer when collapsed and helps stabilize against the body too.
I have carried this rig with Kinotehnik EVF, lightweight Que short shotgun mic, an my Angenieux 12-120 for hours without significant fatigue, one hand for camera, one hand for lens, held close to and across the body rather than out in front. The whole rig weighs in at about 8Lbs. Heavy enough to damp small motions.
 
Does seem like you've made a ton of threads all on exactly the same subject. Surely it makes sense to keep it all in one?
 
Razz, I like the description - care to post a photo? I can see it pretty well from what you say. I was worklng with DBolex and was excited with what they were doing.
 
Ben I'm trying to get the word out there ok? I've made 5 threads I think over the last 3 months. I don't post that much on this board. My post total is about 1/5th of your own and I joined 4 years before you!

Maybe you're just reading too much ;-)
 
My point was that surely it's better for you as well as people interested that all the information about your product as well as conversation about the issues you seek to fix were all in one easy to find thread, as opposed to being split over multiple threads where info gets lost or has to be repeated.

Yes I may have a lot of posts. They tend to be on different subjects.
 
cool I have very few posts but in a tighter grouping. It's all good. But really I've listened to Listmums argue about the best way to streamline posting rules until the best answer seemed certainly to eliminate the listmums. I don't know how to keep my 3 new products all tightly woven into one post - they belong to diff headings (FS5/FS7) Arms, rosettes, grip upgrades. Are my posts really dragging you down ? I think it will all shake itself out mate!
 
It's just there was a point not long ago where there were 3 threads on page 1 started by you on the same product-selling topic. Which felt a bit intrusive. You're not dragging me down, I just felt you and the community would be better served by keeping all info together.

'FS series Arms, Rosettes, Grip upgrades' sounds a great catch-all thread title.

EDIT: Please don't see this as a recommendation to start another thread! :)
 
Ben! you seem a very capable score keeper, thread regulator and copy writer. And not at all shy either! No problem with me - knock yourself out.

You're making me very itchy to start another thread tho- just to hear what your reaction might be!
 
Hey Ben I can tell the diff between friendly advice which mmight be a PM as opposed to stage whispering and grandstanding in the middle of someones thread. After your 3rd post it just becomes force fed advise disrupting our conversation. You've deputized yourself to be the thread cop around here, but I really dont think my 5 threads in 3 months - especially as a sponsor warrant your self granted license to herd me. It's not friendly to go around bestowing your advise in a public forum- it's a harrangue. You made your point right away, after that your repeated off topic corralling is more intrusive than anything I've done. And brash.

My passive aggressive nature? Just having a little go at ya mate, if you can dish it out learn how to take it !
 
All pissing aside, I'm very willing to cooperate and hear you out if there is a better way to announce new products. I have rolled out combo of related parts which is new for me and I'v e been doing it piecemeal. But I'd respectfully suggest an email or PM might be more conducive.
 
Lots of info but no photos in this thread? Agree that all in once place is better, people like me read threads front to back, all in one place for information, pictures, pricing, etc. is nice.
 
Sure enough Wes, I'm thinking on just how improve this. Since I make things for both the FS5 and FS7 and the forum requires a category choice prior to publishing (it actually doesn't let you post until you choose one or the other) I began making separate posts for similar products which makes sense as they are camera specific tools, different in design, fit and completion date can vary by months. In February I made an FS7 post "FS7 Crony development" or something like that to differentiate a fresh subject from Ben Giles original experiments. So that' s a new thread about closely related subjects but it seems to make sense.

Months later I cant ressurect that old misnamed thread to intro a new FS5 product. No one would see it. I don't post that much - let alone over-post, so I didn't give it much thought. I felt like I was helping by developing tools and options.

My essential value to readers here is letting people know what I just made. I'm not a big company rolling out products- I'm figuring out a way to reliably manufacture a tool, making several porototypes until I get it correct and then showing it and saying this "Thingo" is now available if you want it.

I am a manufacturer and have a great faciility that makes established products. But I use DVX more as a liason with my prototypoing efforts for a give and take with what I'm interested in and getting responses from what y'all are needing/looking for.

Ben suggests - a single catch all thread., but I don't even follow the logic of that. I was the first to make an FS7 rosette with MALE stud. People here jumped on them and I sold them all over the world from readers who heard about it HERE. It helped these shooters out, they were really appreciative that I made the tool. I like filling that responsive problem solving role.

When I have a unique option it makes sense to get the word out- not bury it in an old thread that is mistitled. But I'm open to ideas. Even tho I still don't really see the problem here. If I have a busy period and occassionally post 3 times in a month- where is the problem? I scan thru the forum and pick what I want to read - that seems to be working.
 
Wes this thread is for discussing the WAY we are handholding new smaller cameras- and how Under The Lens (UL) handgrip positioning might be a new part of the equation and one that bears discussion.

This evolved out a product announcement and I considered it a legitimate subject for general discussion and wanted to save it from being buried in a narrow product thread.

So photos of FS5 rosettes are in my Product Announcement.
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?350045-Camera-Rosette-for-FS5-New-product-announcement

I hope you can appreciate my thinking, it may not be right- but I'm doing the best I can ;-)
 
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Hoi,

Just want to chime in in the 'political' debacle that this thread has sadly become. I personally find your threads interesting and informative Caleb, and don't think you need to worry about posting too much. Many of the most regular contributors to this board seem to really like the sound of their own (typed) voice, and I would suggest not even rising to the bating next time you receive critical responses like this.

It's a forum after all, and what's a forum without a few threads popping up every now and then!

Just my thoughts. Cheers,

jason
 
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