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The point is also -- whether something is great content or not, depends on who's looking at it. For a 40-year-old male, "Twilight" represents horrible content -- I mean, really bad. But for the 14-year-old girl, there couldn't be anything better. So three billion dollars of success will be made off of 14-year-old girls (and their 45-year-old mothers) while they will love their time in the theater.

And not one of them would even make it through a screening of "The Godfather"...

I think this is pretty much why this conversation's feeling like crossed wires. It's mostly semantical, and personal definition. I didn't like the second pair of Transformers movies, but I am not afraid or ashamed to admit that I have seen the first a good ten times at the VERY least, and I often quote it with my best friends (in Optimus Prime's voice).

Knowing your audience is what content creation is also about. Barry's pretty right.
 
So content is king, everything has content, some people may think your content is lousy while others think it is epic, and you'll always have an audience as long as someone, somewhere, thinks it is good content.

Does that sum things up?
 
No more untrue than "it was EXACTLY like Lord of the Rings"... I remembered it as being reported that there were some vistas and a scene with gollum. I didn't remember there being action sequences. But even so -- ten minutes of selected outtakes does not make for a three and a half hour epic, so I think my main point still stands.

It seems unfair to compare a sneak preview to an entire three and a half hour long movie.

So you're saying people would still be as upset if the sneak preview was in 24p?
 
So content is king, everything has content, some people may think your content is lousy while others think it is epic, and you'll always have an audience as long as someone, somewhere, thinks it is good content.

Does that sum things up?

LoL. Actually...

Yes. As weird as that sounds, that's the "subjective" truth of art without commerce, and even with commerce.
 
Heck yes I would disagree with that! The praise many Hollywood films get is absolutely undeserved, while plenty of good smaller films go completely unnoticed. For example, Twilight has been praised by probably tens of millions of people (their age is irrelevant). Plenty of better films shot with lesser budgets are barely noticed.

Undeserved to you. Do you think those millions of Twilight fans would find those other films better if they watched them? They could just as easily find them snooze fests. Just because you find them better, doesn't mean that they would be liked by anywhere near as many people as Twilight...even with the same budget/advertising.

Regardless, I should've included an "All things being equal,..." at the beginning of my statement you quoted.
 
Dangit... and I just realized that by agreeing with that statement, I'm also implying that I acknowledge "luck" as a part of success...

I'm sad now. Time for JOnes Soda.
 
Undeserved to you. Do you think those millions of Twilight fans would find those other films better if they watched them?

Which is exactly my point. They liked it, I did not. Predicting success/worth/whatever based on "crappy story" or "fantastic story" is pointless. I suppose I didn't make that clear enough.
 
To that audience, yes.

I don't know why you're so hung up on this. First rule of marketing ANYTHING, EVER, is "know your audience." I've gotten absolutely rave reviews for all my books, hundreds of private messages from people telling me that it "saved their life" on a shoot, etc; but I wouldn't dare recommend it to a ladies book club as a literary adventure...

I just sawr this and lol'd at the thought of a bunch of housewives sitting around talking about the section on picture profiles and the beach girls picture.
 
Which is exactly my point. They liked it, I did not. Predicting success/worth/whatever based on "crappy story" or "fantastic story" is pointless. I suppose I didn't make that clear enough.

Which is why "content is king", in my opinion, is ultimately pointless as a workable idea.
 
So what then, in your opinion, is "king," if not "content"?

I know you asked this to Gary, sorry for butting in.

If someone DID ask me, it would be Experience. Hands down. I came to this conclusion when I paid to watch THE ROOM in a theater full of drunk and high people throwing spoons at the screen...

Twice.

Nothing beats a great experience, to me. And, nothing conjures more word of mouth than a great experience. That might just be me, though.

Transformers was technically a terrible story... but, it was pretty freakin' fun in the theater.
 
I came to this conclusion when I paid to watch THE ROOM in a theater full of drunk and high people throwing spoons at the screen...

I would just point out that the audience had control over that, not Tommy Wiseau.

But I get what you're saying.
 
It seems unfair to compare a sneak preview to an entire three and a half hour long movie.
I agree -- that's why I disagreed when you said a sneak preview delivered the same as the full Lord of the Rings. I'm saying they had a chance to compare them based on everything BUT the actual content...

So you're saying people would still be as upset if the sneak preview was in 24p?
If it was in 24p there never would have been a news story about it at all. So yes, there was a kerfuffle established because a group of theater owners are scared to death that the biggest tentpole release of next year, may turn audiences off.

I'm really surprised that the general tone of this discussion seems to be to reject any reasonable stand and only flee to the extreme corners. Why does it have to be that way? Sure, if Lord of the Rings was released on Pixelvision, people would be upset. That's obvious, and it's not in dispute. But surely you wouldn't dispute that if "paint drying" was released in imax, and "Lord of the Rings" (exactly as it was originally shot and made) was released on pixelvision, surely you wouldn't dispute that people would still prefer Lord of the Rings...
 
Predicting success/worth/whatever based on "crappy story" or "fantastic story" is pointless. I suppose I didn't make that clear enough.
Ah, let's not cross that grand divide, confusing "story" with "content". That's a whole different discussion.

"The Three Stooges" did not have a great, grand, epic story. Neither did "Birdemic". But in both of those theaters where I saw them, the audiences laughed themselves until they nearly puked.

"story", by and of itself, does not equal "content".

If "story" was all that mattered, people would just read books. That's the essence of story without all the other elements.

A story is a good thing to have, but is not necessarily the only element required (nor, it could be argued, is it the most important element) in order for the audience to enjoy the content of the film.
 
I know you asked this to Gary, sorry for butting in.

If someone DID ask me, it would be Experience. Hands down. I came to this conclusion when I paid to watch THE ROOM in a theater full of drunk and high people throwing spoons at the screen...

Twice.

Nothing beats a great experience, to me. And, nothing conjures more word of mouth than a great experience. That might just be me, though.

Transformers was technically a terrible story... but, it was pretty freakin' fun in the theater.
That is what I am referring to as "entertainment". If it's a tearjerker that doesn't make you cry, then it's a failure, but if it's a tearjerker that makes you cry, then it's entertainment. If it's a comedy that doesn't make you laugh, then it's a failure, if it's a comedy that makes you laugh, it's entertainment. If it's a horror film that doesn't scare you, it's a failure. If it's a horror film (like Jaws) that terrifies you and makes you scared not only of the ocean, but of swimming pools, then it's successful entertainment.
 
But surely you wouldn't dispute that if "paint drying" was released in imax, and "Lord of the Rings" (exactly as it was originally shot and made) was released on pixelvision, surely you wouldn't dispute that people would still prefer Lord of the Rings...

I would not dispute that. I think paint drying is a terrible movie idea, devoid of creativity, art, and craft. I don't care if one person thinks its awesome or a thousand people do. It's utter s*%t.
 
Well, to each his own then. I would contend that making content that people want to see is the only workable idea that's worth pursuing.

And I think it's a fool's errand ultimately. You should make content that you would want to see, instead of thinking you have this really great film about robots in outer space that will do gangbusters at the box office simply because you want to ride on the success of Transformers.

More often than not, your content isn't great.
 
That is what I am referring to as "entertainment". If it's a tearjerker that doesn't make you cry, then it's a failure, but if it's a tearjerker that makes you cry, then it's entertainment. If it's a comedy that doesn't make you laugh, then it's a failure, if it's a comedy that makes you laugh, it's entertainment. If it's a horror film that doesn't scare you, it's a failure. If it's a horror film (like Jaws) that terrifies you and makes you scared not only of the ocean, but of swimming pools, then it's successful entertainment.

Ah, let's not cross that grand divide, confusing "story" with "content". That's a whole different discussion.

"The Three Stooges" did not have a great, grand, epic story. Neither did "Birdemic". But in both of those theaters where I saw them, the audiences laughed themselves until they nearly puked.

"story", by and of itself, does not equal "content".

If "story" was all that mattered, people would just read books. That's the essence of story without all the other elements.

A story is a good thing to have, but is not necessarily the only element required (nor, it could be argued, is it the most important element) in order for the audience to enjoy the content of the film.


Oh. Well.

Then we've been on the same page all along.

Continue. LoL
 
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