GH2 Hacked GH2 Impressed in the new Zacuto shootout

Skeptikal said:
"If the reviews are true, I'm glad the GH2 smoked it."

I wrote the original one (Australian screening)...and it's true. Actually, I was being conservative compared to some of the more recent reviews that have come out of screenings in the USA. Many placed the GH2 first. That's great, but going beyond my personal ranking of the cameras.
Click to expand...

Did you see this? Francis kenny is brutal. This mean spirited review may just be him scrambling to justify his choice after having pushed Sony, the owner of the TV show Justified which he is DP, to shoot on Reds instead of using Sony cameras that had previously shot the the show or the #1 camera chosen during your session that beat the Epic, Sony's own F65. How do you think you'd feel if you were a Sony Exec?

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?79526-Just-watched-first-part-of-zacuto-shootout/page6
 
mico said:
Did you see this? Francis kenny is brutal. This mean spirited review may just be him scrambling to justify his choice after having pushed Sony, the owner of the TV show Justified which he is DP, to shoot on Reds instead of using Sony cameras that had previously shot the the show or the #1 camera chosen during your session that beat the Epic, Sony's own F65. How do you think you'd feel if you were a Sony Exec?

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?79526-Just-watched-first-part-of-zacuto-shootout/page6
Click to expand...

He was being honest. It would be nice if fanboys took off their blinders to see these cameras as they really are... Just tools.
 
mico said:
Did you see this? Francis kenny is brutal. This mean spirited review may just be him scrambling to justify his choice after having pushed Sony, the owner of the TV show Justified which he is DP, to shoot on Reds instead of using Sony cameras that had previously shot the the show or the #1 camera chosen during your session that beat the Epic, Sony's own F65. How do you think you'd feel if you were a Sony Exec?

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?79526-Just-watched-first-part-of-zacuto-shootout/page6
Click to expand...


Well...he's entitled to shoot with what ever camera he likes. But there are several points he makes that are just plain bullshit.

"The test was absurd. It was unprofessional"

Why? They did their best. Any comparative test needs to be reduced to a relatively controlled set of parameters. It's a comparative test...so all the cameras are used under the same circumstances to evaluate potential image quality capabilities and differences. Who cares if the set was from Happy Days.

"If anyone who calls themselves a cinematographer considers this absurd exercise in stupidity a test they truly don't have a clue."

That's pretty bloody arrogant!

"And my intention is to not attack anyone."

Could have fooled me.

"By the way, a test is when things are done scientifically. Where each camera is shot and processed with the oversight and control of the manufacture."

Really? That's why RED was asked to participate...but declined!

"The iPhone was looking as good as the F65"

Total rubbish! If that's what he thought why does the then say "[he and his friends] thought the Epic looked the best. And even that had been murdered." Talk about having a Bob each way!

I really don't understand the need for such an insulting lashing-out. Most of the comments at RED User have been balanced, despite a few looney tune conspiracy noises. All he needed to do is say that even though he didn't like the Zacuto test, nevertheless he and several experienced ASC friends picked the Epic (which he does say). Why should he give a rat's arse what other people think about the camera ranking? I thought that everyone was entitled to their own opinion.
 
I'd rather be run over by a train than get involved with this, but I've spoken to Francis over unrelated matters in the past. He's a genuine guy, and not the kind of person out to be a dick for no reason. I understand his post on RU could come off in such a way, but that's not it. He's frustrated that such a subjective, admittedly unscientific and horribly uncontrolled test is trying to pit cameras against one another in an intrinsically objective comparison of image.

I own a gh2 and it's cool to know the image was so well received, but I've always been a bit suspicious of these zacuto tests. For instance, the time a grip "accidentily" forgot to plug in a fill light for a crucial comparison scene when it was the Sonys turn. The grip seemed to remember pretty well to have it plugged in for every single other camera. I'll stick to my own testing.
 
I don't recall any particular God or deity decreeing that the Zacuto test is the be-all-and-end-all decider of which camera is better than another.

It's simply a limited attempt to provide an objective way of comparing the great technology that's now available to us. At the end of the day each person makes his/her own decision about what camera(s) are most suitable. The fact that he and his ASC friends thought that Epic looked good doesn't bother me at all. Others didn't...and chose the look of the material that they did like (without knowing what camera it was). So what exactly is the problem with that?

I've been a cinematographer for over 40 years: underwater, wildlife documentary, war zone human interest (Vietnam, Cambodia, Somalia, Sri Lanka, Middle East) and have ACS status...and a PhD in science. So I don't need some upstart telling me about scientific methodology, or that I'm clueless because I enjoyed attending the Zacuto Screening. Can't highly experienced people have a different perspective on things? Who the hell does he think he is to tell others which acquisition and/or grading they should prefer? Or whether a particular evaluation of camera technology is worthy of consideration.
 
Last edited:
In a round about way, Zacuto has accomplished a main goal for their company...I am looking forward to tuning in and watching the test video. It is important to remember (and this is not to discredit Zacuto) but these tests are marketing. They know the best way to get people's attention is to pit the cameras against each other in a grudge match so the internet can light up with discussion. And it works quite well.

The fact that the GH2 is holding its own is enough of a win in itself. Nobody expects it to "beat" the more expensive cameras, but a simple justification that the more expensive grass is not that greener helps the budget minded stay on course.
 
My take on this whole thing, not having seen the footage yet, is that the point of this round of testing was squarely on the cinematography and not the camera. The point is that if you know what you are doing, and how to work within the limitations, the GH2 can be pretty damn good. Is it going to be the A-cam of choice on big shows, certainly not, but it may open some eyes and kick some canons off the crash cam cart. The fact that it is easily PL compatible should be a big deal at that level.

For the rest of us the message should be make the best use of what you have, and learn to use what you have. If you have a GH2 and learn to use it very well, you may be able to produce an image comparable to the big boys, possibly even better than what you could achieve with a one day rental of a camera system you don't know how to use. Moreover, if you can't get that image out of the GH2, then maybe you should take that as a reality check that you're not ready to move onto a better camera, and save your money for some lights and other kit that will make more difference than a new camera. What would be the better long term investment, a high end body, or PL Mount lenses. I'd say lenses are pretty obvious. And they are increasingly in much shorter supply than cameras. For the cost of an Epic Kit, you could own a nice set of Cooke Panchros that would last the rest of your life. Put a HotRod mount on the GH2 and your already at the next level. Get a job that demands an Alexa, or Epic or Sony whatever, you rent that for the day.
 
dop16mm said:
My take on this whole thing, not having seen the footage yet, is that the point of this round of testing was squarely on the cinematography and not the camera. The point is that if you know what you are doing, and how to work within the limitations, the GH2 can be pretty damn good. Is it going to be the A-cam of choice on big shows, certainly not, but it may open some eyes and kick some canons off the crash cam cart. The fact that it is easily PL compatible should be a big deal at that level.

For the rest of us the message should be make the best use of what you have, and learn to use what you have. If you have a GH2 and learn to use it very well, you may be able to produce an image comparable to the big boys, possibly even better than what you could achieve with a one day rental of a camera system you don't know how to use. Moreover, if you can't get that image out of the GH2, then maybe you should take that as a reality check that you're not ready to move onto a better camera, and save your money for some lights and other kit that will make more difference than a new camera. What would be the better long term investment, a high end body, or PL Mount lenses. I'd say lenses are pretty obvious. And they are increasingly in much shorter supply than cameras. For the cost of an Epic Kit, you could own a nice set of Cooke Panchros that would last the rest of your life. Put a HotRod mount on the GH2 and your already at the next level. Get a job that demands an Alexa, or Epic or Sony whatever, you rent that for the day.
Click to expand...


+1!
 
Skeptikal said:
I don't recall any particular God or deity decreeing that the Zacuto test is the be-all-and-end-all decider of which camera is better than another.

It's simply a limited attempt to provide an objective way of comparing the great technology that's now available to us. At the end of the day each person makes his/her own decision about what camera(s) are most suitable. The fact that he and his ASC friends thought that Epic looked good doesn't bother me at all. Others didn't...and chose the look of the material that they did like (without knowing what camera it was). So what exactly is the problem with that?

I've been a cinematographer for over 40 years: underwater, wildlife documentary, war zone human interest (Vietnam, Cambodia, Somalia, Sri Lanka, Middle East) and have ACS status...and a PhD in science. So I don't need some upstart telling me about scientific methodology, or that I'm clueless because I enjoyed attending the Zacuto Screening. Can't highly experienced people have a different perspective on things? Who the hell does he think he is to tell others which acquisition and/or grading they should prefer? Or whether a particular evaluation of camera technology is worthy of consideration.
Click to expand...

Werd-2-the-mutha!! :) +1

dop16mm said:
My take on this whole thing, not having seen the footage yet, is that the point of this round of testing was squarely on the cinematography and not the camera. The point is that if you know what you are doing, and how to work within the limitations, the GH2 can be pretty damn good. Is it going to be the A-cam of choice on big shows, certainly not, but it may open some eyes and kick some canons off the crash cam cart. The fact that it is easily PL compatible should be a big deal at that level.

For the rest of us the message should be make the best use of what you have, and learn to use what you have. If you have a GH2 and learn to use it very well, you may be able to produce an image comparable to the big boys, possibly even better than what you could achieve with a one day rental of a camera system you don't know how to use. Moreover, if you can't get that image out of the GH2, then maybe you should take that as a reality check that you're not ready to move onto a better camera, and save your money for some lights and other kit that will make more difference than a new camera. What would be the better long term investment, a high end body, or PL Mount lenses. I'd say lenses are pretty obvious. And they are increasingly in much shorter supply than cameras. For the cost of an Epic Kit, you could own a nice set of Cooke Panchros that would last the rest of your life. Put a HotRod mount on the GH2 and your already at the next level. Get a job that demands an Alexa, or Epic or Sony whatever, you rent that for the day.
Click to expand...

...and 2 my brotha-from-anotha-motha!!! +1
 
I don't recall any particular God or deity decreeing that the Zacuto test is the be-all-and-end-all decider of which camera is better than another.
Click to expand...

Exactly. They are only out there to sell ultra expensive gear. Stuff that you can find cheaper somewhere else and will perform exactly the same way. But hey, we live in a capitalistic democracy and they can put up together whatever circus they wish as long as it will help them sell. Myself, I wouldn't buy even a screw from them.
 
I believe Red boycotted the tests because they are open to fudging, letting in bias in favor of one system or another. It had already happened in previous years, and so they weren't willing to risk another fiasco.

I'm not sure why anyone here cares, or is having a meltdown over it.

Apparently the consensus is that it is not important and settles nothing, anyway.
 
mail4joeg said:
I believe Red boycotted the tests because they are open to fudging, letting in bias in favor of one system or another. It had already happened in previous years, and so they weren't willing to risk another fiasco.
Click to expand...

Red's official reason is because Zacuto was not going to project in 4k. If you have evidence of fudging or bias, I would love to see it.
 
John Caballero said:
Exactly. They are only out there to sell ultra expensive gear. Stuff that you can find cheaper somewhere else and will perform exactly the same way. But hey, we live in a capitalistic democracy and they can put up together whatever circus they wish as long as it will help them sell. Myself, I wouldn't buy even a screw from them.
Click to expand...

Ding!!!

This is the big lesson I took away from last year's Zacuto shootout:

Expensive top end equipment (cameras AND Zacuto gear) may perform a little bit better than cheaper equipment (GH2, AF100, Canon, Nikon... AND NON-Zacuto gear), but not really better enough to justify the huge price difference. Making a Hollywood feature with a big enough budget for the best? Knock yourself out and get the best. But most of us aren't.

Probably not the result Zacuto intended, and I'll bet they profited nicely from the marketing bump the tests gave them. (Why else do them again?) But that's definitely a view I came away with. And for that, I thank them, even though I'll probably never buy any of their stuff.
 
Gary Huff said:
Would would justify the cost of an Alexa or an Epic?
Click to expand...
Having someone rent it from you for $1200/day.

If you could get an Alexa, and were in a market that was commanding those rates, you'd be a blithering fool to NOT get it...

Acquisition of a camera such as the Alexa or Epic is a strictly business decision. You look at what the equipment costs, and what you can expect to receive from it, and you make your decision on that basis. I am a firm believer that nobody shooting a no-budget feature should be even considering cameras such as these, it's madness. Pixel-peeping a GH2 or FS100 against an Epic is just a silly and pointless exercise. The C300 is made for and marketed to who it's made for and marketed to, and C300 buyers won't ever for a second consider whether a GH2 or an Alexa would be the better fit, because those are such wildly different cameras at wildly different price points.
 
Barry_Green said:
Having someone rent it from you for $1200/day.
Click to expand...

Well, sure, but keylight seemed to be referencing the oft-trumpted idea that no one cares about that "extra" bit of quality, it's-all-on-the-Internet-anyway, camera-companies-are-scamming-you, ect. ect. ect.

I think that the current sub-$10,000 market (hell, even the sub $1000 market) is absolutely amazing compared to what we had only a few years ago. We are insanely fortunate.

However, if I was in the sub-$100,000 market instead, you better believe I'd have an Epic or Alexa.
 
Last edited:
Barry_Green said:
I am a firm believer that nobody shooting a no-budget feature should be even considering cameras such as these, it's madness.
Click to expand...
Craigslist producers the world over disagree with you wholeheartedly. The DP should gladly provide these for pizza and the experience.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top