gray markey hvx200's

robertwerden

robertwerden

Well-known member
Im new to this forum, so please be gentle.
I have read the entire thread relating to where to buy a hvx200.

It was touched on slightly but I don't think the topic has been completely covered.

What are the pros and the cons of gray market camcorders?
The reason I ask is because so far the down side I see is having no warranty. The question though is if there are after market warranties available and the cost is still lower than retail when the after market warranty is applied, what else would you be lacking by going this route?

I have been talking with the actual customers who have purchase HVX200's off of ebay for $3500.00 and the response is pretty much the same.
It was an unpleasant deal, with a high pressure sales person. They paid an extra $400 for the warranty bringing the cost of the camera up to $3900.00 .
The camera was new in the box and it functioned normally.

So what else am I missing besides the fact of depriving real dealers business and interfering with the flow of merchandise to the proper channels?

Im going to be buying my hvx in july from http://www.studio-exchange.com/
I just wanted to have a clear understanding of this topic.
Thanks for your time and input.

Rob
 
I have both a USA model and non-USA (grey market) model. Price asdie, they are the same. Warratny wise you are correct. If a non-USA model, warranty only good outside of USA.
 
Panasonic USA will still repair the camera if needed, but they won't pick up the tab. So you aren't without support, but it will come out of your pocket.
 
I know there is a Panasonic rep on this forum.

I have a question for you if you would be so kind to indulge me.

If Panasonic is selling these hvx200's in another country that these gray market importers are getting there hands on, how is it that the Brooklyn dealers are able to sell for a lower price than your authorized dealers pay?

You would think if Panasonic is capable of offording the cheaters these low prices, they would also afford dealers the same to compete.

If your customers are tempted like me to take a chance and buy gray market, then you are clearly in a very bad position. This tells you that your official US retail price is not as attractive as you may think. You either need to raise the prices at the source where the gray market is originating or lower the price in the US.

If you raise the price to hurt the gray market, you also hurt the consumers in that region who that lower price was designed to attract.
If you lower the price in the US then you kill the gray market and increase sales to the US customers who where in the market for a lower priced camera.

I dont know what the percentage is of sales done on ebay compaired to sale done from other sources for this gray market hvx200. For my business ebay is 40%.
If you goto ebay and click advanced search, type hvx200 and click show complete auctions only. You will see completed auctions that have sold to a customer with the final price in green. I counted 26 hvx200's sold on ebay last month. That is only from the gray market dealers who are bold enough to actually take the chance of selling them on ebay. Track down all the dealers who sold them and most of them are sock puppet accounts for the same dealer in Brooklyn.

So with my estimation of 40% that makes online and ebay sales alone for this one dealer at about 45 hvx200'2 per month. They also have multiple retail stores and probably many other methods of selling. And thats just one dealer. I have seen at least 10 dealers who have gotten black listed on reseller ratings as selling gray market goods. That is a grand total of 450 gray market hvx200's per month from just the visible gray market dealers.

Now word is spreading through out the net that respected dealers are getting caught selling gray market. In my 1 second seach I found articles implicating Amazon listing hvx200 for J&R who got caught selling gray market. In this forum a user investigated Beach Camera and Buydig as being the same company and also selling what they call parallel market product. (gray market). In order to compete you will start seeing your authorized dealers who very well know "how to get" gray market goods mixing them in with authorized goods. This is clearly making people on this forum ask constantly if the dealer they have chosen to shop with is known for gray market selling. These questions should not have to be asked at all.

The numbers add up, and they are killing the market. Once again to make a point and suggestion. Lower your prices and not only kill the gray market, but restore the peace of mind to your loyal customers who are now scared to buy your product for fear of getting a gray market product. If the gray market dealers can afford to sell at these prices, then you as the OEM can as well.

Rob
 
I just discovered that Gray Market listings actually violate eBay's listing policies and by eBay rules, the item could be removed and the seller could even be suspended from eBay privileges. The only way in which this happens is if the actual copyright holder or authorized US rep files a complaint with eBay. As an example, I came upon several listings for counterfeit suits from an expensive Italian designer (and yes, I wear designer Italian clothing). I wrote to them and the listings were removed, the vendor suspended and they sent me a very nice tie! If there were absolute proof of gray market and if Panasonic US so chose, Jan could actually contact eBay under a vendor protection program and shut down the auctions. But, I suspect that Jan has a lot more pressing things to do.

Bottom line here is that we live in a world of caveat emptor.

Now, to Rob's question of how they do it... pricing is determined by a number of factors. Distribution, support and marketing costs are a factor. Exchange rates are a factor. Market conditions are a factor. I do not presume to lecture a vendor.

In the pro market, price is one factor. Service and relationships are other factors that figure into the buying process. I have never worried about buying a gray market item because I shop where I know the dealer is authorized.

Ned Soltz
 
Absolutly, It is called VERO and Panasonic is not a VERO member. If Panasonic were to set up a VERO account they could shut down every gray market dealer.

I am a licensed manufacturer for Warner Brothers and I have dealers kicked off ebay for trademark infringement all the time.

As far as to buy or not to buy gray market, it is a moral question of course. I have decided not to buy gray market as I stated in my first post.
Id be interested to know from Panasonic or even some of the dealers who frequent this forum, just how many hvx200's they sell per month.
Does the 450 estimated hvx200's sold in the gray market monthly hurt them? Or is it of no concern. To me 450 $5000 sales would be quite a loss, but I don't know how many legitimate sales there are to compare it with.
 
I never purchased from one of these great market/Brooklyn guys but i was always under the impression that you would never get your camera for 3,500 or whatever low price they advertise.

From the stories I have read people always say that the bought the camera at a low price then are bullied into buying other useless items at inflated prices. If they refuse then the camera never gets shipped. That way the seller ends up selling the camera plus "accessories" for over the cost of the camera itself thereby making their money.

At least that is how I understood it. That or they are selling stolen cameras.
 
Look its a s simple as this. Greymarket stuff will cause you a headache, and wind up costing youalmost as much as a real camera. Especailly with the "brooklyn" guys. They try to charge you for things like the battery and charger, and the lens ( whic is attached permanently to the camera).. ITs a SCAM.

DONT BUY GREY MARKET CAMERAS. period.
 
When the State Attorney General of New Jersey files suit against these scam artists and alleges a laundry list of breaches of the law, you ought to take notice and admit that maybe there is a pattern of deceptive and fraudulent behavior:
The state’s complaint alleges that Save Here Distribution used bait and switch tactics, failed to deliver merchandise and misled consumers in the advertising and pricing of items. The specific allegations include:
  • Failing to sell merchandise at the price advertised on the company’s web site;
  • Charging or attempting to separately charge for accessories or equipment that the Original Equipment Manufacturer included with the merchandise (for example, camera batteries and/or battery chargers);
  • Charging consumers inflated shipping and handling fees;
  • Failing to provide any price reduction for merchandise which appears to be on sale or reduced;
  • Failing to inform consumers at the time of purchase that some or all of the merchandise is out of stock; and
  • Refusing to permit consumers to cancel an order or merchandise upgrade prior to shipment.
Save Here Distribution has advertised and/or sold merchandise through the following web sites: expresscameras.com, geniuscameras.com, trustedcamera.com, trustedphoto.com, luckydigital8.com, clearviewcamera.com, bluestripephoto.com and hopecamera.com.
Click to expand...

(From http://www.nj.gov/oag/newsreleases06/pr20061130a.html)
 
If only it were that easy, just not to buy from the crooklyn dealers. At least one person on this board reported they bought a gray market camera from a reputable (the biggest) east coast Panasonic authorized camera/video store that many of us have used at one point or another with good results. It wasn't clear how they resolved it, but said it was resolved.

I'm still trying to make sure that I did not get a gray market HVX. I bought it from a dealer recommended from the Panasonic website but the model number on the box label ends in "PJ" even though TC is in the serial number. Under the viewfinder it ends in "P." I paid the going rate at the time for a dealer's HVX and I did not get an error message when I did the online reg. There was no letter inside with Jan's name though.
 
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The "PJ" just indicates a NTSC camera made in Japan -- that is the correct suffix for a camera sold in the US.
 
Thanks, THoff. Jan said yesterday on another thread that mine is not gray market. In addition to having TC in the serial number, I had a sheet regarding the rebate of the book inside the box. I also didn't get an error message when registering online.
 
I have a gray market HVX and have a full MACK 4 year warranty. Never had a problem..

Saved over $1200

If you play the game with these guys.. you can win.. you have to make them think that they are getting over on you.. when they want to sell you something, let them know that you have something better, like filters.. say, I have a 6x6 ARRI mattebox with 30 filters, will these work in my mattebox? you want them to SAY NO.. MAKE THEM.. HUMOR them, like they will want to sell you a battery.. say, I only need one, I work in a studio and we plug it in..
let them think that cant sell you anything, LIE to them, make them feel like they will win.. PLAY THE GAME, but only order the camera from them.. get EVERYTHING else from somewhere else.. MAKESURE you get the MACK warranty from a place like b&H..

Ask more questions if you have.. I bought my camera from BROADWAY VIDEO... Played the game.. won..

If you have the time to play the game it is WORTH it..
If you dont have the time, and have the $$, then dont mess with these people!
 
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