Gran Torino -- the old Clint Eastwood is back!

sean90291 said:
Estebe, I don't get your reaction at all. How could I stereotype you when I have no idea who you are, what your background is, whether you're male or female or intersex, straight, gay, Muslim or Atheist? We've never met and we're not Facebook friends.

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You assumed something.

You attacked my review.

My values, sense, and sensibilities.

I will say this though in your favor. You do know about the term intersex and that does say something very positive about your exposure to diverse and divergent peoples.



sean90291 said:
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As you never actually said what meaning you got from Gran Torino, then I could only say "I think I know what meaning you got." That is, it was my best guess that you took the main meaning Eastwood intended: an old racist guy learns that his anger and racism are wrong and he can atone for something he did in his past, etc. Clint would be happy to know that's pretty much the meaning Battuta got too......
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If in the future you are unsure simply ask. If at all possible I would be more than happy to oblige and attempt to explain my position. I am thankful for your interest.

As to what Clint thought I would have to ask him next time he comes up to our neighborhood. If I get the chance.



sean90291 said:
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The thing is, I got a different meaning. Or at least a mixed meaning, as someone else also expressed in The Huffington Post. Sort of how you seem to have taken a different meaning from one of my posts than I intended. Sort of demonstrating how ideas can have unwanted consequences, and why I have my reaction to some of the unintended themes in the movie. What I hoped to do was make some people think about this movie a little bit in the way I saw it, whether it convinces them or not. And because I love talking about movies, good and bad. Let me clarify this: the meaning I got from it is NOT what Clint thought I would get--for me, Clint screwed up big time and actually did some things so that the movie had the opposite effect he was going for.

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I read their review. Those are very sweet and well meaning young ladies. They are are bright and have some spark but I completely disagree.


I am actually more interested in your personal opinion and on a very deeply personally level.

More so than those girls or any other online reviewer outside our circle for friends here in this very thread.



sean90291 said:
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There are more people you can add to your angry list in this Slash Film podcast here. I just listened, and they also had a similar reaction to the movie as I did. It's possible--dare I say POSSIBLE--that the film is a bit divisive. That we all won't see it the same way or like it equally.

Oh, and I think those IndieWire film snobs put Gran Torino on their 10 Worst Films of the Year list, so I have no idea what you'll do to them. I'll warn them you're coming.

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More interested in your opinion and those of my friends here.



sean90291 said:
Estebe, I don't get your reaction at all. How could I stereotype you when I have no idea who you are, what your background is, whether you're male or female or intersex, straight, gay, Muslim or Atheist? We've never met and we're not Facebook friends.

....
Click to expand...


You assumed something.

You attacked my review.

My values, sense, and sensibilities.

I will say this though in your favor. You do know about the term intersex and that does say something very positive about your exposure to diverse and divergent peoples.



sean90291 said:
...

As you never actually said what meaning you got from Gran Torino, then I could only say "I think I know what meaning you got." That is, it was my best guess that you took the main meaning Eastwood intended: an old racist guy learns that his anger and racism are wrong and he can atone for something he did in his past, etc. Clint would be happy to know that's pretty much the meaning Battuta got too......
Click to expand...


If in the future you are unsure simply ask. If at all possible I would be more than happy to oblige and attempt to explain my position. I am thankful for your interest.

As to what Clint thought I would have to ask him next time he comes up to our neighborhood. If I get the chance.



sean90291 said:
...

The thing is, I got a different meaning. Or at least a mixed meaning, as someone else also expressed in The Huffington Post. Sort of how you seem to have taken a different meaning from one of my posts than I intended. Sort of demonstrating how ideas can have unwanted consequences, and why I have my reaction to some of the unintended themes in the movie. What I hoped to do was make some people think about this movie a little bit in the way I saw it, whether it convinces them or not. And because I love talking about movies, good and bad. Let me clarify this: the meaning I got from it is NOT what Clint thought I would get--for me, Clint screwed up big time and actually did some things so that the movie had the opposite effect he was going for.

....
Click to expand...

I read their review. Those are very sweet and well meaning young ladies. They are are bright and have some spark but I completely disagree.


I am actually more interested in your personal opinion and on a very deeply personally level.

More so than those girls or any other online reviewer outside our circle for friends here in this very thread.



sean90291 said:
...

P.S. What's weird is, despite my disappointment and serious misgivings about the film, I did like parts of Gran Torino a lot. Especially Clint's performance.
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I would in all seriousness like to thank you so much for your gracious reply.


Watching a film can mean many different things to many different people. Even as we grown and learn and simply change the same film can evolve in meaning.


Your points are well taken and appreciated even if they are not all shared.

:beer:
 
What is portrayed in this film isn't racism...it's good old fashioned ball-breaking. It's the "Rat Pack" outlook. You break everyone's balls equally... You know, this guy for being Jewish, that guy for being black the other guy for being a Pollock, and that guy over there for being Italian. Meanwhile, they are all hurling "stupid drunken Irish" lines right back at you. Then at they end of the day, everyone shares a beer. (At least that was the school I came from.)

Believe it or not, there was a time before political correctness reared its ugly head.

Eastwood's character subscribes to a very classic American, yet very un-racist philosophy.
 
Where did I attack your review Estebe? I didn't mean to.

Callaghan, I'm not attacking your review either. But the fact you don't see Walt Kawalski as a racist man is exactly why I have a problem with the film!
 
sean90291 said:
Where did I attack your review Estebe? I didn't mean to.

Callaghan, I'm not attacking your review either. But the fact you don't see Walt Kawalski as a racist man is exactly why I have a problem with the film!
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SPOILERS:


Regardless of how Walt started out, a racist man would not have given up his life for them.
You can't call him racist in one post and compare him to Jesus in another. :)


MAH
 
But he started out as a racist man right? Callaghan says the film doesn't portray racism.

And it's Clint who refers to HIMSELF as Jesus in his closing shot. He's redeemed and redeemer. His racism cleansed by his selfless act of saving everyone else sorta thing... That's what the movie's sayin' in essence.

So I am most definitely calling Walt a racist man. And most definitely saying the film tries to annoint him Jesus in the finale.

It seems that Battuta, Callaghan and Horrigan all vote to say Walt was never a "racist" man. Again, that's my problem with the movie. I think that's the mixed message. And its failure. Frankly, it proves my point to me. So I can rest my case in my own mind. My fears are confirmed I suppose.
 
sean90291 said:
It seems that Battuta, Callaghan and Horrigan all vote to say Walt was never a "racist" man. Again, that's my problem with the movie. I think that's the mixed message. And its failure. Frankly, it proves my point to me. So I can rest my case in my own mind. My fears are confirmed I suppose.
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This is what people are having a problem with. Don't put words in my mouth, I said...

Regardless of how Walt started out, a racist man would not have given up his life for them.
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Don't twist my words. I simply stated that it doesn't matter, a racist man would not have done what he did. He wouldn't have done half the **** he had. In fact, he wouldn't have come out with a rifle to protect them in the first place.

Sorry, man. I don't play games like that. Have a nice day.

MAH
 
Michael Anthony Horrigan said:
This is what people are having a problem with. Don't put words in my mouth, I said...


Don't twist my words. I simply stated that it doesn't matter, a racist man would not have done what he did. He wouldn't have done half the shi* he had. In fact, he wouldn't have come out with a rifle to protect them in the first place.

Sorry, man. I don't play games like that. Have a nice day.

MAH
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Everyone is so grumpy about me twisting words and I really don't think that's what I'm doing. I read what you typed, man. You said "a racist man would not have done what he did"...so then what...so he's racist or he's not? That to me is a sentence in English that says he's not racist. If you can't say anything more clearly than that, then I guess I have no idea what you're saying at all.
 
sean90291 said:
But he started out as a racist man right? Callaghan says the film doesn't portray racism.

And it's Clint who refers to HIMSELF as Jesus in his closing shot. He's redeemed and redeemer. His racism cleansed by his selfless act of saving everyone else sorta thing... That's what the movie's sayin' in essence.

So I am most definitely calling Walt a racist man. And most definitely saying the film tries to annoint him Jesus in the finale.

It seems that Battuta, Callaghan and Horrigan all vote to say Walt was never a "racist" man. Again, that's my problem with the movie. I think that's the mixed message. And its failure. Frankly, it proves my point to me. So I can rest my case in my own mind. My fears are confirmed I suppose.
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Me too... Walt was never racist only a crotchety old bigot....

It's all in the eyes of the beholder.

I just asked my entire group of friends who went if Callahan was a racist.

Just like that.

They all said no.

I think that you might have some sour grapes and/or some insecurity/ hypersensitivity going on.


I am not trying to be a dhick to you.

I like you and think you are very well spoken and intelligent.

I just disagree with you on your view of this film.

Oddly enough some of your descriptions about the film could be interpreted as hostile and "racist" towards blacks and whites.


But none the less I still love ya man! :beer:
 
ESTEBEVERDE said:
...I just asked my entire group of friends who went if Callahan was a racist...
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Wait...Which Callaghan?
dirty-harry-2.jpg
-or-
3155717033_86d72104f4_m.jpg

This One.......................................................................................This One

?​
 
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Huh? Anyhow, I'm out. It's turning into a school yard. I hoped to have a lively discussion about a movie. I really appreciated Battuta's point of view, even though it was different to mine. I appreciate Estebe extending an olive branch. But I don't even understand most of the responses. I fail to see a distinction between bigot and racist, etc. I clearly saw a different film than those who responded here, even though there are other people in the film world who had a similar reaction. I usually like to hear what dvxuser reactions are to movies, because it helps me decide which movies to go to. But it's pretty futile trying to speak seriously about film on a deeper level than two thumbs up. At least today. More like shock and awe war tactics to shut folks down. Seriously, I have no idea what you guys are even saying about the movie...except that you did like it. It will probably turn a tidy profit.
 
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sean90291 said:
Everyone is so grumpy about me twisting words and I really don't think that's what I'm doing. I read what you typed, man. You said "a racist man would not have done what he did"
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This is what I mean by twisting words. You misquoted me entirely. What I SAID was....
Michael Anthony Horrigan said:
SPOILERS:
Regardless of how Walt started out, a racist man would not have given up his life for them.

MAH
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See what you did there by removing my first line "Regardless of how Walt started out". You make it seem like I said something entirely different when in fact I'm open to the fact that he came off as a racist in the beginning.

Then you wrote this....
sean90291 said:
It seems that Battuta, Callaghan and Horrigan all vote to say Walt was never a "racist" man. .
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I never said that. Hence the "Regardless of how Walt started out" part of my sentence that you chose to omit.

Clear now?

MAH
 
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sean90291 said:
Huh? Anyhow, I'm out. It's turning into a school yard. I hoped to have a lively discussion about a movie. I really appreciated Battuta's point of view, even though it was different to mine. I appreciate Estebe extending an olive branch. But I don't even understand most of the responses. I fail to see a distinction between bigot and racist, etc. I clearly saw a different film than those who responded here, even though there are other people in the film world who had a similar reaction. I usually like to hear what dvxuser reactions are to movies, because it helps me decide which movies to go to. But it's pretty futile trying to speak seriously about film on a deeper level than two thumbs up. At least today. More like shock and awe war tactics to shut folks down. Seriously, I have no idea what you guys are even saying about the movie...except that you did like it. It will probably turn a tidy profit.
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All I can say is that you are a very decent person and I would love to chat with you in any thread anytime.

Sorry it's a bit prickly in here.

Just the nature of the subject I think.

While our views are 180 degrees off from one another I do appreciate your candor in sharing.

All the Best!

Sincerely,

Estebe
 
This was a great movie! One thing I like to do before I go out to the movies, is never watch any previews, read any reviews, or anything.

I like to keep the entire plot -- and sometimes even the GENRE -- mysterious so that when I walk into the theatre I have no idea what I'm in for.

I did that this time, and for Slumdog Millionare, both great movies, and it was a real blast. I suggest you try it :)

yes, I said movie, and not film. I just don't want to sound like a tool, sorry xd
 
This is such an incredible movie! Rarely does a film touch me like that. I just can't describe it in words. Sorry if this thread is old already, but I just had to say that. It easily beats lots of movies written by "big time" script writers. Lots of them sometimes look dull and dead to me. And THIS. This movie is..... there is no words for describing how incredible it is (ok, for me, it's a subjective view point, get over it). Maybie it only looks like that to me, because I have watched few really bad movies before this one. But I seriously doubt it. Thumbs up for this wonderful movie.
 
I thought it was a decent movie, I watched it a couple of times. But I didn't think it was all that most people are hyping it up to be... I'm not sure if people act like that just because it's Clint Eastwood, or what. I thought his acting was a little too "over-the-top" for me, it just didn't seem all that believable. He could have toned it down a little bit, and while it wouldn't have been as comicly stereotypical, I think it would have made his role a lot more believable as a "real" person. The story line, although fairly well executed, I felt was mainly a typical cookie-cutter redemption story.

All in all, I thought it was a somewhat entertaining, but in a lot of ways, dull movie. Would I watch it again? Probably. I may even end up getting it on dvd one day, but It's definitely not on my top movies list. (And when I first heard about this movie, I was really hoping it would be)

Just my 2 cents.
 
Watching this again as we speak. I think it's almost impossible to NOT crack up when Clint swears...

"how about I blow a hole in your face, and then I go inside and sleep like a baby...you can count on that."

*points gun* "shut your f'n face..."

"that old woman hates my a**"

I would be rolling had I been on set...

I don't understand all the negative comments I found back in this thread. I guess I let the racism part almost pass over me. It was a factor but never did I think of his sacrifice as the "white guy saves yellow guy." That kind of thinking is the exact problem when it comes to racism. What if it was just white people and he was some bitter old man instead? I think the sacrifice he made would have been not exactly the same but honorable all the same.

Where was his head at? He knew that the only way the kids would and that family would have peace in their lives is for him to do something about it...he made his choice and the a holes that deserved to went to jail...
 
I saw it last night.

Heavy on the dialog along the lines of Woody Allen. Not really anything happening in this one action or tension wise.
Well, in fact, nothing happening. Dialog driven.

I read about the hype but after watching it, I don't get it.
It was fine for watching a Dvd for relaxing.
Maybe a bit of a stretch for a feature film.
Well, no, a big stretch. A nothing film basically.

Unless you like Woody Allen type movies.
Didn't work for me but it killed an hour or so.
 
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