GOT MY FIRST JOB! HOW DO I CHARGE?
- Thread starter Slimothy
- Start date
Slimothy
Veteran
Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB! HOW DO I CHARGE?
PK-That's exactly my plan and what I am trying to do. Get the average rate and knock off at least half since he's a friend. The only problem is that I had a hard time finding out what the average rate was! He has an idea of what it costs becaus he had a commercial done and it cost him 400 bucks for a 30 second slot. The guy (from the actual cable company) came out and filmed at the shop for honestly like 5 minutes and left and charged him a buttload. I was like "what the ****". Alot of people on this board and elsewhere told me $40 bucks an hour was a huge ripoff to me. Thats why I figured $25 an hour would be good. Especially since it would actually take me longer than the 100 hours I was planning to charge for. I plan to quote him "I'll work for 100 hours, get paid $2500 flat. But if it takes longer, oh well". Like I said, if that sounds unreasonable then I don't want to approach him with it.
PK-That's exactly my plan and what I am trying to do. Get the average rate and knock off at least half since he's a friend. The only problem is that I had a hard time finding out what the average rate was! He has an idea of what it costs becaus he had a commercial done and it cost him 400 bucks for a 30 second slot. The guy (from the actual cable company) came out and filmed at the shop for honestly like 5 minutes and left and charged him a buttload. I was like "what the ****". Alot of people on this board and elsewhere told me $40 bucks an hour was a huge ripoff to me. Thats why I figured $25 an hour would be good. Especially since it would actually take me longer than the 100 hours I was planning to charge for. I plan to quote him "I'll work for 100 hours, get paid $2500 flat. But if it takes longer, oh well". Like I said, if that sounds unreasonable then I don't want to approach him with it.
pookie_old
Veteran
Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB! HOW DO I CHARGE?
Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB! HOW DO I CHARGE?
[quote author=disjecta link=board=Offtopic;num=1104952287;start=30#40 date=01/05/05 at 23:08:42]
That won't work? You're kidding right?
8)[/quote]
Well........................................maybe, OK
Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB! HOW DO I CHARGE?
[quote author=disjecta link=board=Offtopic;num=1104952287;start=30#40 date=01/05/05 at 23:08:42]
That won't work? You're kidding right?
8)[/quote]
Well........................................maybe, OK
Slimothy
Veteran
Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB! HOW DO I CHARGE?
Pookie: Here is what makes me worth it (according to me and my grandma)
I have already edited footage for him and he loved it. The footage he liked was shot on a cheapo sony camera by him, and I know I can do 1000 times better with my camera. I have connections with riders. I have connections for music. I have enough of an understanding of the camera to produce good results. I have very good organizational skills because I sometimes work as a promoter/coordinator for concerts which require lining up MANY, MANY things (similar to putting together a film). The average rate appears to be alot higher than I am charging. I will be giving him a huge discount as he will not have to pay for my time to get to locations. I know how these videos are edited and am confident I can do at least near as good.
And besides...."I think I am worth it....it's the going rate....I won't work for free....some guy's on DVXUser say so"....I think I agree with every one of those. ;D
Now I've given you plenty of reasons why I think I am worth it. Why are you so adament about me thinking twice about that.
Pookie: Here is what makes me worth it (according to me and my grandma)
I have already edited footage for him and he loved it. The footage he liked was shot on a cheapo sony camera by him, and I know I can do 1000 times better with my camera. I have connections with riders. I have connections for music. I have enough of an understanding of the camera to produce good results. I have very good organizational skills because I sometimes work as a promoter/coordinator for concerts which require lining up MANY, MANY things (similar to putting together a film). The average rate appears to be alot higher than I am charging. I will be giving him a huge discount as he will not have to pay for my time to get to locations. I know how these videos are edited and am confident I can do at least near as good.
And besides...."I think I am worth it....it's the going rate....I won't work for free....some guy's on DVXUser say so"....I think I agree with every one of those. ;D
Now I've given you plenty of reasons why I think I am worth it. Why are you so adament about me thinking twice about that.
pookie_old
Veteran
Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB! HOW DO I CHARGE?
Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB! HOW DO I CHARGE?
Slimothy, good luck.
I have nothing against you whatsoever, only the general attitude of "I have a camera, I am a filmmaker" that pervades everywhere these days.
Simply owning a camera, and reading Barry's book, doesn't make anyone a filmmaker (no offence Barry).
A beginner, with no experience, training or reel, wanting $2500 for a one hour product, contrary to what is said here, is actually a greater disservice to the "industry", than doing it "for costs".
But, whatever.....do a good job
Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB! HOW DO I CHARGE?
Slimothy, good luck.
I have nothing against you whatsoever, only the general attitude of "I have a camera, I am a filmmaker" that pervades everywhere these days.
Simply owning a camera, and reading Barry's book, doesn't make anyone a filmmaker (no offence Barry).
A beginner, with no experience, training or reel, wanting $2500 for a one hour product, contrary to what is said here, is actually a greater disservice to the "industry", than doing it "for costs".
But, whatever.....do a good job
pookie_old
Veteran
Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB! HOW DO I CHARGE?
Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB! HOW DO I CHARGE?
BTW Slimothy, "Pookie: Here is what makes me worth it (according to me and my grandma)
I have already edited footage for him and he loved it. "
Grandma is a he?
Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB! HOW DO I CHARGE?
BTW Slimothy, "Pookie: Here is what makes me worth it (according to me and my grandma)
I have already edited footage for him and he loved it. "
Grandma is a he?
Kirk Gillock
Rebel with a cause
Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB! HOW DO I CHARGE?
Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB! HOW DO I CHARGE?
Thanks alveraz.
A 30 second spot for the local cable company. Was it part of a package? As in, you buy some airtime and we'll make you the spot for $400? I'm sure it wasn't Super Bowl quality stuff.
In the advertising world we typically present ideas first (in this case you would present a script and timeline of the video) then have the client agree to it. You would then give him an estimate of how much it would cost to produce the approved script. Tell him it might be less, it might be a little more. TRY to come in under budget (even $20). They will be very happy and spread good words about you.
A one hour video is a big project. Script it out first and go from there. Trust me, if you can see the whole picture infront of you, then you and your friend will have a better understanding of all that's involved and you'll both be on the same page.
P.S. I hope nobody else already brought up this point. I haven't read all the responses yet.
Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB! HOW DO I CHARGE?
Thanks alveraz.
A 30 second spot for the local cable company. Was it part of a package? As in, you buy some airtime and we'll make you the spot for $400? I'm sure it wasn't Super Bowl quality stuff.
In the advertising world we typically present ideas first (in this case you would present a script and timeline of the video) then have the client agree to it. You would then give him an estimate of how much it would cost to produce the approved script. Tell him it might be less, it might be a little more. TRY to come in under budget (even $20). They will be very happy and spread good words about you.
A one hour video is a big project. Script it out first and go from there. Trust me, if you can see the whole picture infront of you, then you and your friend will have a better understanding of all that's involved and you'll both be on the same page.
P.S. I hope nobody else already brought up this point. I haven't read all the responses yet.
Slimothy
Veteran
Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB! HOW DO I CHARGE?
Pookie- I can imagine you have ALOT of knowledge and have been in the industry for quite a while (correct me if I'm wrong), so I can see why it's pretty laughable when you see people with the "I've got a camera I am a filmmaker" attitude. So I know where you're coming from.
What I think it boils down to is the type of video I am doing really requires a different set of skills than traditional filmmaking. What makes it worth it for him is the amount of time that I will be pouring into it. Not necessarily the amount of time it runs for. And of course the more time I pour into it, the better it will look.
Anyways, thanks so much to you and everyone else who bothered to post and try and help out. That's why this place is so great. Although I got many different answers, I was able to settle on a solution. Whether that was the right answer or not we will find out in the coming months!!! Tim. ;D
Pookie- I can imagine you have ALOT of knowledge and have been in the industry for quite a while (correct me if I'm wrong), so I can see why it's pretty laughable when you see people with the "I've got a camera I am a filmmaker" attitude. So I know where you're coming from.
What I think it boils down to is the type of video I am doing really requires a different set of skills than traditional filmmaking. What makes it worth it for him is the amount of time that I will be pouring into it. Not necessarily the amount of time it runs for. And of course the more time I pour into it, the better it will look.
Anyways, thanks so much to you and everyone else who bothered to post and try and help out. That's why this place is so great. Although I got many different answers, I was able to settle on a solution. Whether that was the right answer or not we will find out in the coming months!!! Tim. ;D
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB! HOW DO I CHARGE?
Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB! HOW DO I CHARGE?
Pookie -- no offense taken. The book isn't a "how to make a film" book, it's more of a "how to get the best from the DVX" book.
Slimothy, here's the thing: everyone's right. $40/hr is really cheap for professional, skilled video work. But it's an absolute fortune if you aren't skilled enough to deliver the work to a professional level (and only you can answer that).
If this is your first paying gig, then the experience you get will likely be far more valuable than the dollars being paid. Getting paid at all is a bonus, in circumstances like this. But also, a 60-minute video is a *massive* undertaking.
If I were you, and I'm not so take this with a grain of salt... I wouldn't worry at all about "what to charge" or "is this fair"... I'd figure that the guy is a friend, you're building your reel, so the budget should be such that you don't feel ripped off for doing it, but most definitely not so high that HE feels ripped off! For example, look at how much time it's going to take out of your life, and what you think you'll get from it, and then plug in a dollar figure (as in, "I wouldn't even think about doing that for less than $xxxx"). In your case, that seems to be around $2500. Don't worry about what it costs per hour, you'll have plenty of time to refine your formula once you have the experience. What you get paid on this first one isn't the issue here. The issue is, what will you learn about production, about managing clients, about how you work under pressure, about delivering on a deadline, etc... that's what the real value here is, right? Once this is done, you will have taken a *huge* step towards launching a career.
And, assumedly, you want to keep the friendship intact after the project, right? In many ways this guy is doing you a favor, helping you open doors by giving you your first commercial project "break". Keep that in mind, as that's a valuable commodity -- most people start off by spending their own money making "spec" spots, here you have a chance to get paid to make a commercial gig. At least it's not money coming *out* of your pocket, so you're already way ahead.
I'd say ask him what he has budgeted for the job. Let him name the number. And whatever it is, take it (unless it's ridiculously low and you feel ripped off by it, but you'll know that when you hear the number, right?) And, as far as "some guys on DVXUser say so..." the standard quoted rate in video is $1,000 to $2,000 per finished minute. For a five-minute video, I'll quote $5,000 to $10,000 depending on what "level" they want it done at. Sometimes it's a really easy job and we can give 'em a break. Heck, that 30-second commercial he had done cost $800/minute, right? But don't expect to get anywhere near that. Let him name the number, not as a "price", but "what's your budget?" If he says he'll go $2,000 then you say "well, I was really looking for $2500" and let the chips fall where they may. If he says "I was hoping to keep it under $10,000" then you say "okay, well, let me analyze all the factors involved and I'll see what I can do." Then you go around the corner, scream for joy, jump up and down and click your heels, then come back and say "I think I can do it for $8720.00". Then when the final bill comes in you make it for $8680 and everyone's happy.
Just make sure that no matter what else happens, he gets an incredible video, one that will make everyone ask "who did this for you?" And make sure that your customer service is so top-notch that he'll answer them saying "I have the most fantastic video guy ever, he'll treat you right, and even if he's expensive you're going to love what you get." If he got a great deal, so what -- the referrals he will send will let you make your money back.
Well, good luck with whatever you decide!
Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB! HOW DO I CHARGE?
Pookie -- no offense taken. The book isn't a "how to make a film" book, it's more of a "how to get the best from the DVX" book.
Slimothy, here's the thing: everyone's right. $40/hr is really cheap for professional, skilled video work. But it's an absolute fortune if you aren't skilled enough to deliver the work to a professional level (and only you can answer that).
If this is your first paying gig, then the experience you get will likely be far more valuable than the dollars being paid. Getting paid at all is a bonus, in circumstances like this. But also, a 60-minute video is a *massive* undertaking.
If I were you, and I'm not so take this with a grain of salt... I wouldn't worry at all about "what to charge" or "is this fair"... I'd figure that the guy is a friend, you're building your reel, so the budget should be such that you don't feel ripped off for doing it, but most definitely not so high that HE feels ripped off! For example, look at how much time it's going to take out of your life, and what you think you'll get from it, and then plug in a dollar figure (as in, "I wouldn't even think about doing that for less than $xxxx"). In your case, that seems to be around $2500. Don't worry about what it costs per hour, you'll have plenty of time to refine your formula once you have the experience. What you get paid on this first one isn't the issue here. The issue is, what will you learn about production, about managing clients, about how you work under pressure, about delivering on a deadline, etc... that's what the real value here is, right? Once this is done, you will have taken a *huge* step towards launching a career.
And, assumedly, you want to keep the friendship intact after the project, right? In many ways this guy is doing you a favor, helping you open doors by giving you your first commercial project "break". Keep that in mind, as that's a valuable commodity -- most people start off by spending their own money making "spec" spots, here you have a chance to get paid to make a commercial gig. At least it's not money coming *out* of your pocket, so you're already way ahead.
I'd say ask him what he has budgeted for the job. Let him name the number. And whatever it is, take it (unless it's ridiculously low and you feel ripped off by it, but you'll know that when you hear the number, right?) And, as far as "some guys on DVXUser say so..." the standard quoted rate in video is $1,000 to $2,000 per finished minute. For a five-minute video, I'll quote $5,000 to $10,000 depending on what "level" they want it done at. Sometimes it's a really easy job and we can give 'em a break. Heck, that 30-second commercial he had done cost $800/minute, right? But don't expect to get anywhere near that. Let him name the number, not as a "price", but "what's your budget?" If he says he'll go $2,000 then you say "well, I was really looking for $2500" and let the chips fall where they may. If he says "I was hoping to keep it under $10,000" then you say "okay, well, let me analyze all the factors involved and I'll see what I can do." Then you go around the corner, scream for joy, jump up and down and click your heels, then come back and say "I think I can do it for $8720.00". Then when the final bill comes in you make it for $8680 and everyone's happy.
Just make sure that no matter what else happens, he gets an incredible video, one that will make everyone ask "who did this for you?" And make sure that your customer service is so top-notch that he'll answer them saying "I have the most fantastic video guy ever, he'll treat you right, and even if he's expensive you're going to love what you get." If he got a great deal, so what -- the referrals he will send will let you make your money back.
Well, good luck with whatever you decide!
Johan_Lundberg
Well-known member
Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB! HOW DO I CHARGE?
Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB! HOW DO I CHARGE?
Great post. ;D
Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB! HOW DO I CHARGE?
Great post. ;D
Slimothy
Veteran
Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB! HOW DO I CHARGE?
Thanks Barry. That's a good idea. I never thought of asking him! "what do you think you want to spend". If he says something ridiculously low I'll just deal with it then, or explain that it maybe can't be as long for such a low price. I do understand the importance of building a reel and practicing, so no matter what, I agree that this will be an excellent challenge and stepping stone. Thanks Barry.
Pookie- "Grandma is a he?" lol. I was referring to the future client. He really liked it. Thanks again all.
Thanks Barry. That's a good idea. I never thought of asking him! "what do you think you want to spend". If he says something ridiculously low I'll just deal with it then, or explain that it maybe can't be as long for such a low price. I do understand the importance of building a reel and practicing, so no matter what, I agree that this will be an excellent challenge and stepping stone. Thanks Barry.
Pookie- "Grandma is a he?" lol. I was referring to the future client. He really liked it. Thanks again all.