GOT MY FIRST JOB!  HOW DO I CHARGE?

Slimothy

Slimothy

Veteran
Hello,
I got my first paying job with a local Motorcycle clothing store. I will shoot and edit a video featuring some of their sponsored riders. The video will probably have a running time of around 60 mins. I will shoot around 75% of it myself. This will include people riding dirtbikes at tracks/in the middle of the desert etc. etc. It will also include lots of messing around (Anyone seen Crusty Demons of Dirt?). I will also be editing everything.

Here's my problem: The guy I'm doing it for is a really good friend and I don't have a clue what to charge? Do I charge a 1 rate for shooting and another for editing. Do I do a flat rate? This project will be ongoing for the next couple of months and could easily end up being over 100-200 hours of work.

I was thinking maybe to charge like 20 bucks an hour for shooting and a flat rate of like 1,000 to edit. I don't know if I am totally under bidding myself. Advice anyone?
 
Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB!  HOW DO I CHARGE?

Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB!  HOW DO I CHARGE?

Experience, how much do you have, in both shooting and editing?
 
Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB!  HOW DO I CHARGE?

First of all, if this is a promotional video, 1 hour seems way too long. Generally something like this would be no more than 30 minutes and you'd be talking at least $5000 (in this area anyway) for a regular project rate.

Up to 200 hours is a lot of time and if this is your only gig, you would need to make it worth your while unless this job is a part favor for your friend. That's basically 5 x 40hr weeks of work.

It would be easier to gauge the amount of work if you had everything really well organized and could shoot efficiently. If you are going to be doing a lot of waiting around for shots that may or may not happen, that's going to cost you a lot of time.

Are you going to storyboard this out or just shoot a bunch of stuff and hope you can create something from the raw footage? Any interviews, etc.?

Will you be including music with this? If so, try not to use copyrighted music and if you are not going to supply the actual music, factor in the cost of buying the rights from a music library.

Do you need to rent any equipment?

You have a lot of things to consider before you get to the point of talking about your project cost.
 
Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB!  HOW DO I CHARGE?

Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB!  HOW DO I CHARGE?

Slimothy, with all due respect... how can you say you have a job/gig when you've yet to determine what amount you will get paid? In other words, you've already agreed to do the job and meet a specific TRT (total running time) but he hasn't agreed to your price - mainly, 'cuz you ain't got one.

It might be best to offer him a package price that will be based on how many hours you will spend on the project multiplied by your desired hourly rate.

Let's say, you estimate 20 hours of shooting and 100 hours of editing and you wish to make (at least) $40/hr... you could charge $4,800 (120 (hrs) x 40 (dollars). In this instance, you might drop the total to $4,500 in an effort to make the price more attractive. (you're the best judge of that).

Offering a package price can make some clients more likely to bite as they know exactly what it will cost them - at least, prior to any agreed upon additions. The downside is you really need to know what your costs will be so that your profit margin doesn't take a hit due to oversight.

I'm a li'l bit worried for you on this endeavor. Whatever you guys agree upon, get it in writing. So sayeth Judge Judy!
 
Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB!  HOW DO I CHARGE?

Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB!  HOW DO I CHARGE?

-Pookie: I am a beginner in both areas, but I edited some stuff he had shot and he really really liked it.

-disjecta: It's not totally just a promotional video. He will also be selling them in his store for like 10 bucks or so. The music is handled, I know alot of bands that want to contribute. (I'll get it all in writing). The type of shoot it will be isn't really the kind you can storyboard with any real accuracy. It's more of a shoot whatcha can and put it together in post. There will be interviews etc. Say I charged him a flat rate like you mentioned, do I collect only when it is done? Meaning I will be broke for the next 2-3 months? If I have to rent stuff he will pay for it.

Terry: Do you think $40 an hour is too much? He is a very good friend, but if the normal rate is $80 an hour, then $40 would be a good deal, for a good friend. I just don't know what the normal rate is. I will take the advice of doing a package deal.

Thanks for the advice guys and feel free to leave some more!
 
Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB!  HOW DO I CHARGE?

You will definitely want to define some structure upfront. Like make sure you have specific questions for interviews and know how you are going to fit them in. Also, by knowing what you will need, you will also get enough coverage if you run out of footage on a given topic.

The most successful editors can visualize the edit during the shoot. This way you can be efficient with your time and energy.

I would definitely require partial payment (maybe 50%) upfront and then another partial payment when you have a rough edit done. Don't wait till the end just in case your friend backs out or cries broke. Working with family and friends can be just as perilous as working with an unknown client, maybe even worse.... :)

Some companies charge up to $125 an hour for this kind of thing so I think $40 represents a significant discount and is probably fair given your inexperience but you need to sell yourself as a professional and use some of your personal time to complete your learning curve if possible.

Make sure the expectations of your friend are in line with what you can accomplish. Not knowing how to do some things and expecting to learn along the way is fine but not if it represents a significant percentage of the job.
 
Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB!  HOW DO I CHARGE?

Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB!  HOW DO I CHARGE?

Thanks alot disjecta. I will storyboard/Plan as much as I can.
 
Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB!  HOW DO I CHARGE?

Okay, good luck.

I don't have all the answers, by any means, but if you have any more questions, feel free to ask.
 
Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB!  HOW DO I CHARGE?

Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB!  HOW DO I CHARGE?

He's a "very good friend" of yours?  Oh nooooo.  :o  You're walking on thin ice my friend.  Step carefully.

If you don't have a lot of experience, then I would do this REAL cheap, so your friend is REAL happy (no matter what the final product looks like). Don't be greedy. You're not going to make it rich doing work for friends. Friends are charity. Adding something to your portfolio is more important than money right now.

I'm speaking from experience. I have done logos, websites, and videos for friends and it usually caused some friction. Typically "friends" don't understand the amount of work that goes into a production and they don't know what other people charge. Some think, "Hey we need a video. Oh my friend makes videos, I'll ask him."  (No research.) Tell your friend to check around. Tell him you will do it at a significant discount because of your inexperience and because he's a friend. Just make sure you make enough to cover expenses.

Friendly deeds are done DIRT CHEAP!!!

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
 
Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB!  HOW DO I CHARGE?

I'll let you know PK. By the way, I loved your short: LONER. great job!
 
Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB!  HOW DO I CHARGE?

Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB!  HOW DO I CHARGE?

I concur on the friend issue. Be VERY careful. I do renovation contracts and have done tons of favors for friends. Sadly, it almost always has some negative aspects. Even good intentions can go misunderstood. They do not realize the amount of work there is and easily (and understandably) make too many assumptions. They subconsciously feel they should get better treatment being friends. And the majority of the problems fall in miscommunication. Be very specific in determining what is desired and expected - On both ends. A good price will not guarantee any latitude in delivery expectations. You can charge half price but full service will be expected... The less misunderstanding up front the better! Both parties mean well going in but it can go south on both of you. I wont do work for friends anymore as it's just not worth the risk. Not suggesting you don't do this. Just saying be painfully clear on everyone's objectives, requirements and expectations.

As for price I have no idea, but the above advice from the gang seems pretty solid. :)

Good luck and naturally - Have fun!
 
Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB!  HOW DO I CHARGE?

Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB!  HOW DO I CHARGE?

FRIENDS + BUSINESS = RAPID MOTION IN THE OTHER DIRECTION.

I was on a very friendly terms with the owner of my daughter's dance studio. I did a picture day for them, driving around for free, shot a recital show... doing it basically at cost. Everyone was very happy until I found they used my pictures in a very unprofessionally slapped together brochure. The next season, I put a copyright notice on the (deeply discounted) invoice, basically requiring them to get my permission every time they want to use the pictures.
WHOA! Somehow the lady felt that by getting all the service at cost, she had the right to do as she pleased with my work.

I know they like my work, and suspect they will call me back this season, but I am not too sure I want to work for them again - just not worth the hassle.

So - not only the money, but also what happens to your product afterwards is important. Make sure you retain the copyright and the master tape/DVD.
 
Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB!  HOW DO I CHARGE?

Will do. I was even thinking about printing up this thread, bringing it to him and being like "hey, this is what the gods of dvx multi-media says, don't blame me if I hate your ****ing guts in 3 months". ;D
 
Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB!  HOW DO I CHARGE?

Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB!  HOW DO I CHARGE?

Okay, in this case, I am going on the record by saying you shouldn't go below $100/hr. Hope that helps you!
 
Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB!  HOW DO I CHARGE?

Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB!  HOW DO I CHARGE?

[quote author=Slimothy link=board=Offtopic;num=1104952287;start=0#13 date=01/05/05 at 16:04:05].. don't blame me if I hate your ****ing guts in 3 months...[/quote]

;D Ha!

Umm, maybe there is a small grey area on being too detailed up front! ;)
 
Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB!  HOW DO I CHARGE?

Re: GOT MY FIRST JOB!  HOW DO I CHARGE?

A lot of people have their own personal rates. Some people use rates based on their region. You could make more money in say a large city rather than a small town in some respects.

I have done a lot of projects that had no storyboards and I put the whole thing together in post.

Are you doing any special effects or graphics? If so, that might take extra editing time that you would need to compensate for or have included in the price. For example it took me 3 hours to do an effect that would only last 7 seconds.

$40 an hour to shoot seems low to me. I would charge close to $100 an hour depending on how elaborate the shoot is.

You could also shoot the video for fee of whatever then in your CONTRACT that YOU ARE going to give the store owner state that you want a certain percentage of the sales of the video they are planning to sell.

I am going to be working out a deal like this real soon. I shot the stuff myself for me but I plan on making a percentage off the video once its ready to sell.
 
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