Got a small job for somebody... any takers?

Anhar Miah said:
hey siniarch thanks for the compliment!, I'm just learning man as I go along :) there are lots of 3d artist way above me, I've got room for plenty of improvements!

Okay guys, the secondary test is up!! :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FWszRLjt1I

Enjoy, NON Photoreal render used, I think it may be good enough.

Not finished but an indication of what the final thing could look like.

Anhar
Click to expand...

The only thing that is missing is a little refraction, which could be done in post. Looks good.
 
Hey matt thanks for the advice, I'm only just learning Compositing (AE), but that 2nd test was "composited" with Sony Vegas because my AE was a bit buggy.

How do I do refractions in post, please do share Matt :)

As you know I used the low-end render (scanline) simply because the time per frame using the Production render is too long, scanline can do very basic things like refraction and reflections but they are not that good. Having said that, I'm actually liking scanline for animations, its quick and gets the job done, and if you use some workarounds you can pull of near production quality (in my view). Rendering for animations is different to rendering for stills!
 
Anhar.. to do refractions in post i would use the liquid pass as an alpha channel for a distortion effect, applied to the background. I'm not sure in ae but in Shake its very easy. To get a better effect you could render a seperate pass with a black and white procedural texture applied to the liquid and then use that as the input level into the distortion effect. That way you can control the amount and variance of refraction by playing around with the brightness and contrast on the input image. This may be tricky in AE...
 
Oh also... You can definatley use scanline for professional quality results. Most of the "quality" you see in pro work is achieved by creating careful textures, shaders and lighting. Radiosity (or GI whatever) caustics and the like are often used to cover up weaknesses in those areas. I often don't even raytrace! time is money...
 
Here's my newest attempt.
The grain is from the glass material itself.
The specular may be a bit high though.
The fluid will move over it.

fluid_view_2.jpg
 
Ok... these guys' work is looking AMAZING... no joke. You're next project is to figure out how I can put all your guys' work in my movie! ;)

Also Raptor, the quality of that is incredible. How long does a frame of that quality take to render?? I really really like the metal texture and the reflection. That is perfect!
 
10 minutes. So that would be 40 hrs for 250 frames. But only if the camera is constantly moving. If it's static then I put that as the background and only have to render it once so it's free after that.

I want to pan out a bit at the beginning and ending so with some static background and a little comprising I can cut down the time alot. I can probably cut off some more time but re-checking my settins for reflection and so forth.

-I had an idea. C4D has a 30 day trial version that is fully operational. It does not allow saving your projects. BUT, it might allow you to render your images.
If it does then you could help render some of these scenes.

download here...
http://www.maxoncomputer.com/download_demo.asp
 
Raptor, that material is looking very good, a little easy on the specular as you said, but other than that its good, have you thought about rendering in passes, it does help out a bit, my metal shader (the scanline one) rendered in under second per frame, the fluid elements took around 15-20s but mind you I've got a AMD64 dual core, so that probably helps somewhat for the renders.

I'll post something later if I make any updates, I;ve just realised that if I start puttin in the markers on the cyliner the camera would need to go back further BUT then my cylinde is not that long, if I change the length of the cylinder then I'd have to re-do the simulation and build the surface mesh.

All possible, but I'll see what I can juggle between my other works.
 
Raptor365 said:
10 minutes. So that would be 40 hrs for 250 frames. But only if the camera is constantly moving. If it's static then I put that as the background and only have to render it once so it's free after that.

I want to pan out a bit at the beginning and ending so with some static background and a little comprising I can cut down the time alot. I can probably cut off some more time but re-checking my settins for reflection and so forth.

-I had an idea. C4D has a 30 day trial version that is fully operational. It does not allow saving your projects. BUT, it might allow you to render your images.
If it does then you could help render some of these scenes.

download here...
http://www.maxoncomputer.com/download_demo.asp
Click to expand...


Hey Raptor,

I'll definately download this and see if i can help. I think my computer would do much better. Is there GPU rendering support? Anywayz, i might actually have a friend that could let me barrow the program with full support for saving... i'll have to check and make sure he has it. Anywayz, i'm at work right now (i work at a knife store) but I get home tonight around 9:30 and i'll be all over it!
 
How big are the save files and do the saves keep all your camera movements in it as well as textures?
 
-Anhar
That is some power rendering your doing. It must be that 240 line voltage you guys have over there. :)

-brock2621
There are the project files and the render image files.
The project files is a single file which holds everything but the imported textures which are saved in a seperate sub folder.
The project files holds everything else. The cam movements, object or model animations lighting and so forth.
When you load a project file it loads the imported textures also.

The project files for this are about 13Mb without the baked particles and a few gig with the particles.

So simply put, if I gave you a project file and the other textures, all you have to do is open it and click the render button then sit back and watch.

The rendering settings would be preset but I'd explain how to set them up because we have not discussed the frame rate or video size yet.
When I'm ready to run the final render I'll need that info as well as a server to upload the files.
(Assuming that's what you decide.)

-I found a way to fill the syringe. I made a resorvoir/regulating tank feeding into the syringe body. I placed it vertically and above the strucure (cylinder) used to detect the fluid particle collisions. I just had to fill the tank with an emitter and let gravity draw the particles down the pipe and into the syringe chamber. Water towers work the same way.
 
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Anhar Miah said:
Hey matt thanks for the advice, I'm only just learning Compositing (AE), but that 2nd test was "composited" with Sony Vegas because my AE was a bit buggy.

How do I do refractions in post, please do share Matt :)

As you know I used the low-end render (scanline) simply because the time per frame using the Production render is too long, scanline can do very basic things like refraction and reflections but they are not that good. Having said that, I'm actually liking scanline for animations, its quick and gets the job done, and if you use some workarounds you can pull of near production quality (in my view). Rendering for animations is different to rendering for stills!
Click to expand...

In your case, since the water does not have a lot of color in it, you would use a displacement map based on Luminance, rather than the traditional Red and Green channels.

Also, with that kind of flow, not only would there be some refraction, but there would be a degree of blurred backgound. That would be done with something like a Compound Blur, where black has no effect and white blurs to the "X" amount you have told the program.

But, again these are nitpicks, small things that would lend towards the better visual impact. The work itself is awesome.


There is a reason Effects Houses have 3D'ers and Compositors. No one person can do it all.

And what about sound design?? :thumbsup:

You get the idea.

I have watched your modeling progress and you are doing yourself proud. Taking particles into the mix is a whole 'nother game unto itself. There is a reaon Effects Houses have folks dedicated to nothing but particle effects . . .
 
great! Yeah i'll find somewhere to upload it. Also, what's up with the baked particles stuff? I don't fully understand that but is there a way that I can bake it on my end? Here is basically what I could do. If i CAN get the program I don't care how long it takes to render, I want the best possible outcome. So turn on all those detail setting to max :-D hehe So if it takes a week to render, that's fine.... i'll do it. PM me and i'll email you the settings when ya need em. I'm not a 100% sure if i'll be in 24 or 30 frames for this one (cross fingers for the 24 if i can get the camera). But all in all i'm EXTREMEMLY impressed with that Raptor. I am even more excited about this shot!

Oh, and i think the light green you used would probably work unless you could decide on some type of other poison color you think would look good :)
 
The animations & particle bakes right now are in 24p.
So if the frame rate is changed they'll have to be done over.
But as of now only the particle bake because the C4Dstuff wont be rendered until that is done at least.
30fps means even more render time ofcourse.
Although it can be converted from 24p to 30i.

I did have a slightly different green texture that I used before that I want to take another look at.

I'm running what I hope is the final bake (yeah I know) right now and getting some z's. The water simulation rig works. I just had to readjust the particle count and increase the resolution a bit.

The big render hog is the actual rendering though.
I'll update tomorrow.

-gotta go.
 
Here's the rig I'm using in Real Flow.
The run last night was going to take to long, a week, so I lowered a few settings. Here it is at about frame 64 (@2hr, 30min)and it looks like the water will run out at around frame 100 where it will splash around for several more seconds. This will be about an 8hr bake.

Baking particles, in this case just means I'm saving the animation.
But instead of saving pictures it saves the data that describes
each fluid particle's position in 3D space for each frame.
I'll finish running this one. I'd like to fill it at least half way
though but that means increasing the particle count, currently at 100,000.
And that means another 8 to 16 hrs on top of the 8 to begin with.

This might be a plan...
If you can download the trial version of Realflow and give me an email
address, I can send the C4D rig you see below. It's only 61kb.
Then you can import that into the program and run it yourself.
I'll give you the settings to start with and a quick tute to get it
running.
It has to be version 4(the newest) or it may not be compatible with my C4D projects.
Here's the link again.
http://www.nextlimit.com/realflow/try.php

That will allow me to finish with the C4D scene files and get them ready.
Then I'd send those to you and you can finish the rendering.


water_rig.jpg


// At frame 162 it's still going strong. The fluid in the tank is about 1/4 " above the top of the cone.
So it's going to be close.

/// Frame 193: The fluid is still slightly above the cone. The syringe is 1/2 full and 80% leveled out.
So I'd say it's a done deal. Now that I've said that, watch it bottom out or crash or something.
 
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-Hey Anhar. Maybe someday we can make enough money to pay for some server space so we can collaborate on this stuff. What's that cost? 50$ a month? (Insert laughter here.)

Oh well. Maybe next year. :)

/seriously I don't know what it costs to have 2gig server space. Anyone know?
 
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Hey Raptor...

Here's an update from me: I'm getting Cinema 4D tonight and should have that up and ready to go tonight. When i get home from work i'll download that demo as well. That material is looking incredible and i can't wait to get a render of it :)

Basically, how much space do you need to upload stuff to? I'll try to use an old website I have and let you upload it there if i can remember my password for the dumb thing. lol it's been a while....
 
Hey Raptor I've been wanting to do a collabaration for ages, I would definately work on any projects with you involved, I think if needed be I'll mail stuff over :)

I really know that we have diverse talent on this board, but damit I just need to bang heads together arrgh! its hard to get people on board, yea I know we are all busy (and peoples fears of the project going dead end).

I've seen amazing work done by indies (eg Pray Alone,) and using technology and skills that collectively we have right here:

3d guys
Compositers
Matchmovers
Sound Guys
Camera Guys
(did I leave anyone out, DP, ??)

Man, how to get people motivated...
 
-Anhar. Yeah, maybe by early/mid next year we'll have a setup in place where we can start doing that and ideas could flow at a much accelerated pace.

-brock. The sim is at frame 210 of 250 and the funnel is still topped up to the rim. The flow is still pouring out at full force so barring something wierd happening I think this is the one. But it'll be a couple hours before I can confirm all's okay 100% data wise and so forth.


At this point the file sizes are:

particle mesh: 405 MB
particle particles: 2.2 GB
C4D files: 13MB

So the pig is the particles.
Worst case is , barring not getting that info to you, is to send the rig-container
and settings and let you render it using Realflow at your end.
Simulating/saving time for this one is about 8-12 hours so it's not a killer.

Also if you have access to RF4 you can at a later date increase the particle resolution and mesh size to get the amount of detail you want. Right now it's like the previous posts. Not like a tidal wave through a highway tunnel like in Die Hard 2 but probably accurate for a mini cam inside the syringe.
But it can do it if you have the time, patience and to some extent the rendering solutions.

Frame 212 and about 1/8 " below the funnel upper rim. It'll stop when the height of the fluids of both containers are equal in height or I reach 250 frames.

I'll post the sim (particle anim) when it's complete (couple hrs) and see if it's okay. (about 6:30pm dvx time)
Then go from there.

//I have to head out. I'll post tomrrow-thanks.
 
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