Goodbye everybody, I've got to go (F65)

JMtheDP

JMtheDP

Veteran
Hi all

Well, I've done it. I've (tentatively) agreed a deal on an F65, although it won't be here for a couple of months. My F35 is therefore up for sale.

I do not intend this as a for sale thread (heaven's forbid), but anyone interested in the listing can see it here http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=141348866933 and anyone wanting to buy it or parts for it can contact me via PM.

I am mostly going to use this thread to compare my experiences with it with the F65, as even my limited F65 research tells me they are very similar in some ways and radically different in others. I guess time will tell if I made the right decision.

Can we get this sub-group renamed F23/F35/F65?

James
 
Gotta leave you all behind and face the truth!

Wow. This will be interesting.
I would love to fly over and buy your F35, much nearer than Miami (if I recall that´s where the first listings appeared...)

But I´m not in the market nor have the money.
Keep us posted!
 
I will! I don't expect it to sell right away, it is a niche product. They never were the most popular, most sought-after or most common of cameras, but that's why some of us loved them.

I had the same dilemma when choosing what to replace it with. An EPIC or ALEXA might seem like more sensible options, but the lure of the F65 was too hard to resist!
 
I hope you don't really plan on leaving us. The F65 will be a great addition to the F35 knowledge base. If there ever was a place for the F65 to be talked about, it would be on this sub forum.
 
Well that's why i'd like the forum officially expanded. I'm sure I will still be an F35 owner for a month or two anyway.

There's definitely a couple of things I won't miss about the F35, and a few things I certainly will.
 
Congrats James! I'm sure the 65 will be a joy to use! I'd love to see some footage processed with the ACES workflow :-)
 
Interesting development! Is the F65 going the way of the blowout as well?

This probably means different lenses, too? Those Zeiss Standards barely reach across Super 35mm.
 
JMtheDP said:
Hi all

Well, I've done it. I've (tentatively) agreed a deal on an F65,
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Congrats! Now start saving for expensive fast SR cards and card reader.:D

JMtheDP said:
Can we get this sub-group renamed F23/F35/F65?
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How many F23 and F65 owners here? F65 already has official forum in sony forums. Yes is ghost town there but best place to talk to other F65 owners. I think this should stay F35. My opinion.

JMtheDP said:
There's definitely a couple of things I won't miss about the F35, and a few things I certainly will.
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Hope you will not start putting F35 down because you buy a F65. For me F65 = super clean video look, F35 = film look.
 
I think you can access the F65 clips through an iPad with the newest firmware. Definitely excited to get some hands on experience with the F65 from you. Did you get a newer viewfinder with the package? Post pics when your F65 gets in!
 
SJX

I personally feel like the F23, F35 and F65 are all close enough that sharing the same forum doesn't seem like a bad idea. Also, perhaps I like the company?

I don't really think the F65 looks that different from the F35, certainly not in the RAW footage (or S-Log) as the case may be.

The memory is shockingly expensive, I definitely put that as a big negative against the F65. As long as Sony keep the memory format for a while, its OK, but if they bring a new one out in a year I'll go nuts!

Yachacha, you are right about that. The package I'm getting has the C30WR with it, however I'm going to get it upgraded to the DVF-EL100 the first chance I get. I have heard some people say it is a free upgrade, others say it is paid. The good news is the new Sony finder is much more reasonably priced than the old one. I haven't tried one but it must be much better than the 30WR.

Viddo - things I will not miss about the F35? Well, not knowing whether it is rolling for one! I am also not going to miss the vertical smear, that did bug me although having the global shutter did make it very nice the other 99% of time you're not pointed directly into a light source. There are other things, I'll write in more detail. I know I will miss having a standard def output.
 
Hunterqual said:
Interesting development! Is the F65 going the way of the blowout as well?

This probably means different lenses, too? Those Zeiss Standards barely reach across Super 35mm.
Click to expand...

Hunter

Very strange things are going on with the F65. I think Sony have somewhat shot themselves in the foot with the F5 and the F55 - I believe a lot of people are using those rather than the F65, even though there is a big difference between the two.

Regarding lenses, I may be changing but not for coverage reasons. I believe the F65's sensor may actually be fractionally smaller than the F35's (by a fraction of a mm). Despite the name, it is not a 65mm-size sensor.
 
Yes, it will.

Originally, the F65 only supported the same set of HD viewfinders that Sony have been using since the dawn of time. Overpriced, under-performing things that they were. I was shocked when they released the camera it came with the same finder.

Last year Sony introduced a "V3" upgrade for the camera which had a slew of upgrades, one of which was a new port the same as the F5, allowing use of the new viewfinder.
 
Excellent. May I ask how much did you end up paying?
I think the F65 is already suffering the same depreciation that the F35 went through, and within next year it's going to be super cheap to buy. I don't think it looks anything like the F35 BUT it still looks really good in its own way. Oblivion looks fantastic in my opinion. I might jump in too at some point (not until 4K monitors become popular).

What kills the F65 is the lack of 4K output and/or 4K video recording. On the other side, that's what RED has been offering all these years. But 4K XAVC or prores like its younger sisters would totally re-launch this camera.
 
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JMtheDP said:
SJX
The memory is shockingly expensive, I definitely put that as a big negative against the F65. As long as Sony keep the memory format for a while, its OK, but if they bring a new one out in a year I'll go nuts!

...

Viddo - things I will not miss about the F35? Well, not knowing whether it is rolling for one! I am also not going to miss the vertical smear, that did bug me although having the global shutter did make it very nice the other 99% of time you're not pointed directly into a light source. There are other things, I'll write in more detail. I know I will miss having a standard def output.
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Agreed that SRMemory is ridiculously expensive. I'd offer to rent you my (4) 256 GB SR Memory cards should you need them, but they're only capable of 1080p recording. Which, mind you, apparently you can do on the F65.
 
SJX said:
Hope you will not start putting F35 down because you buy a F65. For me F65 = super clean video look, F35 = film look.
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You need to see F65 processed in a different way than you have already seen then. It's capable of anything. The magic is all in how that raw is decoded. ACES vs Sony "Rec709" in the raw SDK, plus other things.

Now that I've got the raw recorder for my 55, I'm getting looks with raw+Impulz Vision3 LUTs that would blow you away. I wish I could post what I've seen.
 
I paid *less* than an F55 + AXS recorder, so I'm happy I got a good deal.

This will cost me less than the upgrade to the F35, from the F900, because my batteries, lenses, etc... will translate neatly.

The camera DOES output 1080P S-Log video (a la F35) should you need it, to one of several flavours of SR codec. This is the mode I anticipate using the most.

I have done some incredibly basic, incredibly brief tests looking at other people's RAW F65 footage and I have to say it looks very similar to F35 footage to me. Not the same, but very similar. It should do, it is another high-end Sony product, the third I have owned. F65 footage does not automatically look "clean and video", certainly no more so than F35 stuff.

Here are some of my other reasons for the upgrade (in no way complete and in no particular order):

1. My F35 is long out of warranty. If it just broke down (unlikely I'll admit) or I dropped it and the insurance didn't cover it, I could not afford to replace it. Sony have extended the F65's warranty to 4 years and is user transferrable.

2. I no longer have any issues between camera and recorder - I was considering buying a Codex for my F35 but this is going to be a minimum £5,000 investment and I will be dealing with uncompressed HD 4:4:4 - a massive file format not much different from the F65's RAW in size respect.

3. 120 fps. This is all.

4. I am possibly going to need a set of IRNDs for my F35 in 6.6x6.6 size. This is £2,000 worth of filter. Included inside the F65. That really frees me up to use filters again, something I loved. It also means documentary type work is more easily done on the F65, although for that an F5/F55 really is much better suited.

5. Yes, it doesn't have 4K "video" output or anything, but I hate the idea of having to buy an add-on for the F55 to get it, and then having two types of memory.

6. The memory is expensive, but to be honest it is in line with the price of an ALEXA XT capture drive, and considerably cheaper than Codex/S.Two packs used to be - that is what you should compare it to. An SxS card won't handle RAW. If you are only doing 1080P on the F65 you don't need the expensive cards.

7. Have you seen the iPad app? I am not easily wooed by flashy stuff but this looks AMAZING!

The F65 WILL come down in price, for sure. It will come to the level the F35 is at, eventually. But I have an opportunity to move to a "current" product and for a brief moment of madness I considered a DRAGON, but RED are having massive QC issues with those cameras. Google DRAGON OLPF NOISE. A used Alexa classic is still big money and doesn't really give me much over the F35 (and doesn't do RAW without getting a Codex or similar - another $15,000 or so).
 
One thing you may not have investigated yet, but Sony raw is highly accelerated by Resolve and Sony Raw Viewer with a current decent GPU.

The only downside to F65 raw is that it's very heavy bitrate/file-size wise. But as for processing power, it's a lot nicer than Dragon or Epic.

Just saying, the exposure flexibility in post might change your mind about shooting SR with it as much as you think.

I will be following your posts closely, even as a 55/raw owner, I sometimes (probably foolishly) wonder about trading it for a 65. Or an Alexa.
 
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