Good use for MixPre

G

ggrantly

Veteran
I am trying to rationalize purchasing a mixpre and imagining how it might improve my audio work flow. My kit includes a pair of oktavas, re-50, a pair of g-2 wireless kit and a at897. I am going to upgrade the 897 to something better and upgrade the senn lavs to emw countrymans. Presently, I feed my audio directly to a dvx-100a. Usually, I am a one man band.

My (limited) projects so far have included a couple of corporate dvds and now I plan to produce a couple of documentaries about food production. These will include some brief shooting out in open farm fields and I would like to get my cam un-tethered from audio wires for the freedom of movement. Think moving down a crop row. I plan to have a person booming the audio on these next shoots.

Now the question: How well would it work to have the boom op carry the mix pre to monitor the shotgun and provide phantom, then feed the signal to a g-2 transmitter and onto a cam mounted reciever. I would monitor the cam to make sure the wireless was working ok. Does this seem like a reasonable way to be untethered or do you have a better idea.

I could use a H4 instead but would prefer not.

Thanks in advance for your wisdom.
Grant

Thanks for your wisdom
 
You plan would work ok. As you have 2 sets of G2 I would send the feed doubled to recover from possible interference on one set. Actually you could use one transmitter and 2 recievers, even that might help.

I would go one step forward and get SD302. Much more flezible with 3 inputs, great limiter, great meters, much easier to operate, and it is a real mixer. The best.

I have had the SD302 for some years and it has been the best audio for video investment for me by far.
 
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Not to dissuade you regarding a MixPre or the suggested 302 but you might also consider a Sound Devices MM1 for the boom op's end. Since you only have one mic to worry about, a preamp with monitoring will let him hear the mic, feed the wireless hop, and give him the required level control.
 
Steve House said:
Not to dissuade you regarding a MixPre or the suggested 302 but you might also consider a Sound Devices MM1 for the boom op's end. Since you only have one mic to worry about, a preamp with monitoring will let him hear the mic, feed the wireless hop, and give him the required level control.
Click to expand...

But without metering on the mm1 the "soundguy" has no idea
what kind of levels he is sending.
 
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Rippie said:
But without metering on the mm1 the "soundguy" has no idea
what kind of levels he is sending.
Click to expand...

True, but he has the level indication on the wireless transmitter. Remember that the level ultimately fed to the camera or recorder has little to do with the level fed to the transmitter by the mic and preamp. They're essentially independent. You set the mic level so you modulate the transmitter fully in all cases, just tickling the transmitter limiters. You set the recording level by adjusting the recorder input to the receiver output, ideally by feeding the wireless receiver through a mixer into the camera/recorder. All gain riding during recording is done at the receiver to recorder link, not at the transmitter side.
 
Steve House said:
True, but he has the level indication on the wireless transmitter. Remember that the level ultimately fed to the camera or recorder has little to do with the level fed to the transmitter by the mic and preamp. They're essentially independent. You set the mic level so you modulate the transmitter fully in all cases, just tickling the transmitter limiters. You set the recording level by adjusting the recorder input to the receiver output, ideally by feeding the wireless receiver through a mixer into the camera/recorder. All gain riding during recording is done at the receiver to recorder link, not at the transmitter side.
Click to expand...

I totally read this as a one man band situation, going back I see
he is talking about using boom op AND a soundmixer.
Least I think thats what he means.
Yes in that regard sure the mm1 is fine.

He could have also meant "one man band" as the way I originally saw it..
He does EVERYTHING himself, sound, camera..etc.
He states HE is putting together projects that leads me to believe he is doing more than just sound.

And this time he was going to have a separate guy booming. (basicly a soundguy without the control of levels)
which at that point I say let him have control of actual level and let the cameraguy do his job.

In that case, the mm1 wouldnt be the best choice because of lack of metering.
 
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Rippie said:
I totally read this as a one man band situation, going back I see
he is talking about using boom op AND a soundmixer.
Yes in that regard sure the mm1 is fine.
Least I think thats what he means.

He could have also meant "one man band" as the way I originally saw it..
He does EVERYTHING himself, sound, camera..etc.
He states HE is putting together projects that leads me to believe he is doing more than just sound.

And this time he was going to have a separate guy booming. (basicly a soundguy without the control of levels)
which at that point I say let him have control of actual level and let the cameraguy do his job.

In that case, the mm1 wouldnt be the best choice because of lack of metering.
Click to expand...

That's a bit thorny. The transmitter should always be getting the levels it requires for full modulation - reducing gain at that stage can compromise the quality of the signal. And it still doesn't eliminate the need to establish proper gain staging between the receiver and the camera or recorder and riding gain at that end.
 
Steve House said:
That's a bit thorny. The transmitter should always be getting the levels it requires for full modulation - reducing gain at that stage can compromise the quality of the signal. And it still doesn't eliminate the need to establish proper gain staging between the receiver and the camera or recorder and riding gain at that end.
Click to expand...


What kind of gear do you use that you have so little amount of room for
proper gain staging?
Sorry man but there are 100's of soundmixers out there doing wireless hops to
video cameras everyday doing exactly that.

You are either misreading what im saying, or getting confused about something else
because using a full range meter on a mixer prior to a wireless link is the way to go
instead of using a terrible metering system (on lectro its the brightness of an LED
that is either green or red) on a wireless transmitter.

I actually dont even get your point here.
You're stating to send a strong signal through the transmitter right?
why on earth would putting a mixer before it change that?
 
Rippie said:
What kind of gear do you use that you have so little amount of room for
proper gain staging?
Sorry man but there are 100's of soundmixers out there doing wireless hops to
video cameras everyday doing exactly that.

You are either misreading what im saying, or getting confused about something else
because using a full range meter on a mixer prior to a wireless link is the way to go
instead of using a terrible metering system (on lectro its the brightness of an LED
that is either green or red) on a wireless transmitter.

I actually dont even get your point here.
You're stating to send a strong signal through the transmitter right?
why on earth would putting a mixer before it change that?
Click to expand...

It wouldn't change it. I'm just concerned that the boom op needs to be totally focused on keeping the mic in the sweet spot rather than trying to also watch a meter. If he sets up the gain on the preamp to properly drive the transmitter when the mic is positioned properly with respect to the talent, his gain setting basically becomes set and forget while he holds the level constant by monitoring in his phones. If the recording level finally being delivered to the tape needs to be adjusted, especially if it needs to be lowered, it should be done after the receiver, not before the transmitter.
 
Sorry if I confused anyone about my plans, and thanks all for the replies.

I have done most of my work alone or with little help = one man band.

My upcoming project will have a boom op, who will need cans and phantom power, thus the mixpre idea. Seems like the mixpre would offer other benefits as well.

Grant

Grant
 
Grant,

I would not recommend using the G2's as your primary connection to the camera - use a cable. The MM-1 works great as a boom op tool - I use it in my wireless boom setup, but I'm using Zaxcom to go from boom to mixer (me).

You want to make sure you're getting clean sound from your boom to your camera, and honestly the G2's just aren't clean enough. I have G2's and I would not use them to replace a wire to the boom. I do use them to wire actors and as a camera hop in double system environments, where I know I've got a clean recording in Boom Recorder and they want scratch audio for dailies on the camera.

Phil
 
Ptalsky, I always respect your thoughts, but I have the G2's and have used them successfully. I won't be far away. Wires would ruin my plan. And the shot wouldn't be a once in a lifetime deal in any event. People walking, camera moving, row crops in between people and cam = snagy wires. I realize G2 is nominal, but that is not the issue here. I am trying to get away from having so many locked down shots or slow pans.....I know this is hard short handed, but if I plan well, hopefully it will work. Nice thing if it doesn't, I'll leave it out.

Back to the mixpre, would you view that as something that would benefit a boom op. I would intend to set the volume levels at the beginning of the scene and probably live with it since it could tend to be pretty busy. I certainly could dual record it with my H4 hanging off the boom op. Or, I could boom it and use a lav also.
 
I just know that the sound quality on my G2's is not as good as it is on my Lectros or my Zaxcom and when I have drop outs, it's almost exclusively with my G2's.

If you really have to go wireless, then why not look at renting a Lectro set?

Phil
 
Thanks Phil,

Well I have the G2s and this is a low budget documentry shot in a farm field with machinery running....well you get the idea. Actually, I have had pretty good luck with the G2s. I always start with fresh bats and test things out first. I am usually not in a city where there might be more interferences.

I did buy a couple of emws and a ntg3 today, so I'll be styling. Still not sure about the mix pre and booming the shot. Maybe I'll just use the EMW-G2s straight to the cam and call it good enough. This will be a relatively short scene and I won't have a boom op tripping over the berry bushes with my new mic.

I was interested in the mixpre because it seemed like a better option for a one man band....smaller and lighter than a full size field mixer. Might use it lashed to my tripod or for a boom op when I use one.

Grant
 
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