Good cinematography is NOT based on what equipment you use!

I think most people around here know that, despite the outrageous number of threads inundated with camera bickering lately. Great videos though, I remember watching that first one on shot design and film look a long time ago and being impressed with your capacity to simplify what generally are pretty advanced techniques so that newcomers can learn. Keep up the good work.
 
A great painter can out paint me with a $5 brush from Home Depot. An experienced and talented cinematographer can take a Best Buy mini DV and out shoot most people.
 
The less control you have over the subject the more control you need over the camera. And that's what you get with better equipment - more control. If you have no time/budget/location or talent constraints then you can shoot anything with an HV30. In the real world equipment matters in cinematography as much as it does in the Daytona 500.
 
Patryk_Rebisz said:
I'm not sure how cool it is to post your own work to illustrate such pompous (and obvious) point....
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What's so uncool about ilustraiting this basic of points that most people either forget or choose to ignore? Besides I have to post my own work since I need permission to use that footage on youtube. Unlike other people I don't post other's work and claim to know it all or take credit for it... or even worse, use videos I don't have rights to.
 
pwyll said:
The less control you have over the subject the more control you need over the camera. And that's what you get with better equipment - more control. If you have no time/budget/location or talent constraints then you can shoot anything with an HV30. In the real world equipment matters in cinematography as much as it does in the Daytona 500.
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I agree with you... in best case scenario you have both control over the settings you're filming in and you have top of the line equipment. But I think very often people forget that just becuase you have a great camera doesn't mean the final product will look great. I came from film background, and when digital started to get better I made the switch, but what surprised me is that as the technology got cheaper and more people could afford to get access to good cameras( that big budget hollywood films used) then the more they were surprised that their work still didnt look like those big budget films.

I think all too often people forget that the sets, costumes, lights and basic skills make a shot look good. Then on top of that you should try to shoot it with great equipment. Instead many worry first about the camera and not what's in front of it.

T
 
phudsontx said:
A great painter can out paint me with a $5 brush from Home Depot. An experienced and talented cinematographer can take a Best Buy mini DV and out shoot most people.
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A great painter also understands and deeply appreciates the difference between cheap brushes excellent brushes and the much greater range of texture and control they provide. Great artists and experienced pros in whatever medium gravitate to better tools.
 
ok i give the same person s**tty webcam and red ,lets see which vid would be better,and more pleasing for regular audience, please stop with nonsense "gear dont matter".
Btw ,is it worthy to iritate viewers with commercial ,i just turned off video , i hate youtube commercials like most people,how much do you have for them ?Im curious.
And i like your tutorials,i dont know why someone would have something against posting them in cinematography section.
 
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bwwd said:
ok i give the same person s**tty webcam and red ,lets see which vid would be better,and more pleasing for regular audience, please stop with nonsense "gear dont matter".
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You're missing the point... and no one said that the "gear don't matter." What was said in the original post was that results come from experience and not the equipment.

It's not "give the same guy a cheap camera and a RED and see which one looks better. The point is that a skilled cinematographer with a cheap camera can produce immensely better results than an inexperienced shooter with something like RED.

Does the gear matter? Well, sure... but it matters in different ways to different people. Even more, it won't matter how much fancy-schmancy gear you actually have, or which camera you bought/rented for the project, if you don't have the skills to use that tool.
 
C2V said:
You're missing the point... and no one said that the "gear don't matter." What was said in the original post was that results come from experience and not the equipment.

It's not "give the same guy a cheap camera and a RED and see which one looks better. The point is that a skilled cinematographer with a cheap camera can produce immensely better results than an inexperienced shooter with something like RED.

Does the gear matter? Well, sure... but it matters in different ways to different people. Even more, it won't matter how much fancy-schmancy gear you actually have, or which camera you bought/rented for the project, if you don't have the skills to use that tool.
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Well said! Exactly what I was trying to carry across. Again... best case is having the skills and best equipment at hand. There is a reason why some cameras cost more than others. Still spending all that money doesnt mean the shots will look great if you don't have the skills first. Yeah it's simple but i see people all too often forget that.
 
C2V said:
Does the gear matter? Well, sure... but it matters in different ways to different people. Even more, it won't matter how much fancy-schmancy gear you actually have, or which camera you bought/rented for the project, if you don't have the skills to use that tool.
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And you wont learn how to use this tool if you.... wont use it .Dont buy some s**tty random handycam ! Get as best camera as you can afford.Cause gear matters.
Thats how people learn,dont learn on cameras which wont give good results cause of hardware limitatons(like random cam and no 24p and auto shutter speeds).
You wont jump over this issue.So gear matters.
So its like goin to win the race with champion ,give him car which goes maximum 100mph and give some random dude with driving licence a car which goes 200mph ,guess what would be the outcome ??? Gear doesnt matter huh ?
Giving adivce that "gear dont matter " is like saying " hey dude you are lame noob ,you dont have experience and you wont learn how to use RED anyway so stick with your handycam".
 
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bwwd said:
Gear doesnt matter huh ?
Giving adivce that "gear dont matter " is like saying " hey dude you are lame noob ,you dont have experience and you wont learn how to use RED anyway so stick with your handycam".
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This is the aspect of DVXUser that makes me sad. David's absolutely right that we need some holiday cheer in here. Harsh, ranting language can quickly spoil an otherwise civilized discussion.

And please read back over what I posted. Again, I did not say that gear doesn't matter and I don't understand why you think I did.

Gear matters. Skill matters. And it isn't just one, or just the other. The two are interrelated, but skill can compensate for lesser equipment while better equipment cannot compensate for lack of skill.
 
C2V said:
Gear matters. Skill matters. And it isn't just one, or just the other. The two are interrelated, but skill can compensate for lesser equipment while better equipment cannot compensate for lack of skill.
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Well said sir...very well said!
End of thread.
 
I guess I'll chime in since I'm one of the people Tom was probably targeting in his videos. I began making short films with a Sony Handicam using Hi8 tapes and Windows Movie Maker. After my first short, everyone who saw it said I needed to make another. So I did. Then another, and then I bought a DVX and I thought my world would change... and it didn't. I've had my DVX for two years and added a Canon 7d to the mix and I can honestly say the main advantage of these cameras is CONTROL. Out of the box, they both produce much better images than my old Handicam but, once I learned how to control them and the scene, that's when I was able to get some good footage that blew away anything the HC would have produced.

If you don't know how to set up a scene or light it, it will be $hit. Go on youtube and type in Canon 7d and see what comes up. I subscribed to this production company's YouTube account and they got a 7D and subsequently named all of their episodes with "Canon 7d" at the end. They didn't white balance their shots, used the onboard mic, underexposed indoors and let the windows blow out, etc. Now, one could say that is the look they were going for but, I think it's a case where they just thought the cam would deliver what they'd been missing. If a prospective buyer looked at their footage instead of Philip Bloom's or Tom's they'd never buy the 7d. That's my two cents anyway.
 
Its obvious that skills matter ,why even bring this to attention,but best way to find out if tool matters is to give bad cam and good cam to the same great director of photography.
Buy best cams you can afford people and dont ever think you are not experienced enough to have them.
Also one more thing ,without lights and fancy sets ,just exterior shots on RED and my webcam could also prove how much tools matter,simple shots,no cinematic ,artistic lights.Tools always matter ,no matter how experienced you are.
Yes some guys can make good pictures on handycams but those pictures would never be as good as those shot on film camera when there will be no cinematic lights,theres so much more,theres depth of field and framerate,shutter speed ,besides why would you take harder route for achieving good,professional looking images ,why pick worse cameras if you can have best cam for the job ?
Things about Paintings are not accurate at all,movies sometimes dont use fancy lights and are shot outside and they look great,mostly because they were shot on film not camcorder ,but its different debate and i dont want to go into that.Painter example is a bit extreme you dont have to paint like picasso(some even say that picasso paints like a child ) to have professional looking footage,it also depends what look do you want of course and i assuming that people want the look of movies from cinemas,shot on film in 24p.
Come one guys,even those tuts were done on canon 7D,cause it has 24p and DOF like 35mm film, so how about doing them on my webcam,how they would look like ?
Oh and maybe i sound rude ,its the way i talk and english is not my native language so my choice of words might be awkward sometimes ,but i do see this kind of hostile attitude in posts lately so sorry for that.
 
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Bwwd, we can see the point you are arguing - a higher quality camera will natively outdo a consumer-grade camera when both are in the hands of a trained user. And I agree.

But that is and was never the point of this thread.
 
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