Going rate for LOCAL comercials?

This might not be the best place to post this...try posting it in the filmmaking section under "business/post production"...you'll probably get a better response there...
 
As RGD said, it depends on who the client is.

If you're talking about upscale lawyer commercials, shot on HD or 35mm, yes those can approach $100k. Cheap lawyer commercials or political ads might be in the $1000 to $1500 range.

But if you're talking about the local furniture or car dealer ads, or the "big sale this weekend" ads, those are more like free to $300. Depends on the cable station and whether they're giving away ads as an incentive for the company to buy airtime.

Basically, if there's any sort of budget at all, you as an independent production company are not likely to be able to compete for the business. Those clients with budgets almost invariably hire ad agencies, so you'd be hired by the ad agency. So if it's a client you can get to directly (no agency involved) expect cheap cheap cheap. Those clients are used to getting their spot done for free by the cable company.

If you want to work on the high-paying commercials, you have to get in with ad agencies (and, be aware that agencies book a bunch of $1500 spots too, so it's not like they'll all be high-budget just because there's an agency involved). And getting in with agencies can be very, very difficult.
 
Good points all. Not to mention that AD agengieces are full of assholes and dipshits and trendy wannabe's and all that. However... they do seem to be a necessary evil and often times can lead to some phat gigs... It's all about how much BS you are willing to put up with. If I were DPing something and making 12 grand a day.. I'm pretty sure I could handle a swimming pool size amount of BS.. lol


It makes me sick when I find out how much director/DP's get. I worked a honda commerical with a director/DP who actually wasn't an ass and he was making 25K a day for a 3 day shoot with 3 days of prep. 125k for a week of work...
 
An exception to what barry said or maybe a niche to explore is the small business that doesnt have an ad agency YET. You can become the ad agency. Most television stations and cable will give you 15% cut of the air time sold if you are the one selling it. This is standard and requires NO qualification. You simply tell the station you are the agency and you place the order. So if you have the skills needed to pitch not only your physical production but also concept, script and perhaps a dash or marketing then you can approach the business and say to them I can help design your television marketing plan, write the script and shoot it all for $XXX. Then after we are done we can air it for $x a month for x# of spots. If you do this then you have essentially offered what the tV station can. TV stations will throw in production IF the client buys enough air time. (hypothetical to follow) so if the client buys say $3000 a month in air time and commits to 6 months then they will toss in the base level of production. However as the client goes below that commitment to buy they start to lose the free production and either pay the Tv company or they need to find other means to produce. Now you can come in and say you will offer all the same services we mentioned before and you will not hold them to a commitment and you will do the commercial for $1000. tnen you will also buy them $2000 worth of air. Now you make 1000 plus your 15% agency fee on $2000 or $300. Now say the client cant afford air time next month. No problem that is their perogative and they have no commitment. howver a well placed phone call every month means that maybe two months from now then want to buy another $2000. you place the order and you get another 15% cut or $300. do this a few times a year and you have really made 1300-2000 on that one commercial, but more importantly you have one more production on the resume and you have a happy client that you can hopefully get some referrals from and you have solved the clients problem of wantting to advertise but not commit to long campaigns. Now, if doing a lot less work for more money is the goal, you can use these early deals to expend you skills, and market yourself. then one day you are directing and dp'ing the DELL or Delta, etc commercial.

All of this is predicated on the fact that you can offer what the station does which is script, marketing, production, and airtime, yet without the commitment that most stations want. After all theoretcially you shoudl have less overhead than they do.
 
I have a semi-related question. Do local stations farm out post work, like VFX stuff? I've been interested in getting some local gigs along those lines, so I would like to know where to look.

Also, I've been wanting to shoot local commercials here in my town and make them more creative/interesting. This thread explains why they all look like crap. Does anybody think this model can changed? Barry, do you think that smaller more boutique local companies would pay a little more for something that rivals the quality (content, and to some degree look) of bigger name commercials?
 
In my experience, no. Smaller companies don't pay at all, and they don't usually care about quality so much as they care about increased business coming through the door.

TV requires repetition. You can't air just once and expect that to be an effective use of your ad dollars. You have to air it over and over and over and over. And that costs money. I used to do a half-hour cable show for a local car dealer. He paid $2,000 per episode for all production services. But he'd spend $30,000 per month in airtime. That's the deal. That's how these places work. Sure they could have put some more money into the show, but -- why? He got exactly what he wanted, and put all his budget into getting the word out.

Local clients want airtime. Production quality isn't that important to 'em because frankly THEY CAN'T SEE THE DIFFERENCE. (did I just say that out loud? Yep.) We have one guy here who does the most atrocious, unwatchable, horrible "vanity" commercials, he's mocked in town for them. But HE THINKS THEY'RE GREAT. He loves 'em. He thinks everyone loves them. I would be surprised if he pays more than $50 each. But man does he air 'em... over and over and over.

So I found two levels of client -- those who don't understand production quality, and those who do. Those who don't, buy direct from the cable station, and you can't compete for that business because there is no business to compete for -- they're getting their spots done for free by the station.

Then there's those who do care -- and those are the ones who have ad agencies already. And you can't compete for that business because they're already locked up by an agency.

And there really isn't much of a middle ground. I got a few direct clients who would pay $9,000 for a commercial every once in a blue moon, but most of 'em wanted the $1500 or less deal. If you can get in, shoot, get out, finish it in post and deliver it all in a day, then $1500 isn't bad I guess. But it takes too much effort to find those clients, and to deal with 'em and maintain them. And I found that those guys will run that one commercial forever, so it's so much effort to pour into a one-time gig. Not worth it.

So you can fight the system, but you'll lose. The only way to go with commercials is to either join the system (work with agencies) or become the system (become your own agency, but that means a LOT of work -- you have to actually do the job the agency would do for them). But that way can be a lucrative way to go, if you've got the skills and talent to land some lawyers and furniture stores as clients.
 
Great thread!

I've been examining this in my area as well. I've thought of a few different ways to approach the small-town advertising market.

I've got a pretty close relationship with a few privately owned businesses here (bars restaurants, wineries, boutique shops), and one approach I was thinking of was to offer to produce an ad free of charge. They could then take that to the local cable station and buy airtime. I know that sounds silly, but my expenses would be minimal (I own all the gear), and I'm also brand new to the ad game.

After producing a couple of free ads, hopefully word would spread and I would start getting some paying gigs.

I was also contemplating making a demo ad reel and offering my services to the local ad agencies and cable station on a freelance basis.
 
Be careful with that, because the word that will spread is "hey guys, dieselfoot does free ads." You don't want to pigeonhole yourself as the "cheap guy" or you'll never escape.

If you *must* do a free ad, give him a bill anyway showing what it would have cost had you actually charged. And make it be a healthy budget. Then you can say at the bottom "complimentary in exchange for word-of-mouth promotion" or something, and zero out the invoice, but the "client" should see an invoice that shows that you just gave him a $5,000 production for free, so when people ask "who did your ad" he'll say "this guy gave me a great deal, it's a $5,000 ad, and blah blah blah" instead of "oh, this guy does it for free." Changes the potential client's perspective completely.
 
What does everybody think about designing ads for the web for smaller local companies? Is that a field dominated by their web designers/hosters?

I know a lot of companies can benefit from some good high-quality marketing, but like Barry pointed out, don't really need it, or they're already getting it. I know there is a lot of dollars in that market, it's just a matter of how to get to it.

I would like to think that a good pitch for a higer quality product would change some minds, or am I just being naive here?
 
Barry_Green said:
Be careful with that, because the word that will spread is "hey guys, dieselfoot does free ads." You don't want to pigeonhole yourself as the "cheap guy" or you'll never escape.

If you *must* do a free ad, give him a bill anyway showing what it would have cost had you actually charged. And make it be a healthy budget. Then you can say at the bottom "complimentary in exchange for word-of-mouth promotion" or something, and zero out the invoice, but the "client" should see an invoice that shows that you just gave him a $5,000 production for free, so when people ask "who did your ad" he'll say "this guy gave me a great deal, it's a $5,000 ad, and blah blah blah" instead of "oh, this guy does it for free." Changes the potential client's perspective completely.
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Thank you, Barry. I was trying to figure out a way to not appear so "cheap," and have the word-of-mouth generated not include "oh, he does this on his computer at home for next to nothing." An itemized invoice works perfectly.
 
Barry_Green said:
Be careful with that, because the word that will spread is "hey guys, dieselfoot does free ads." You don't want to pigeonhole yourself as the "cheap guy" or you'll never escape.

If you *must* do a free ad, give him a bill anyway showing what it would have cost had you actually charged. And make it be a healthy budget. Then you can say at the bottom "complimentary in exchange for word-of-mouth promotion" or something, and zero out the invoice, but the "client" should see an invoice that shows that you just gave him a $5,000 production for free, so when people ask "who did your ad" he'll say "this guy gave me a great deal, it's a $5,000 ad, and blah blah blah" instead of "oh, this guy does it for free." Changes the potential client's perspective completely.
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Would'nt you still run the risk of the client popping out the invoice and saying but look! FREE!

JD
 
Why would they do that ? it would make their product look cheaper than it is. It's one thing to get something for free as oppose to not having to pay for something that you were billed for.
 
I’ve seen horrible local commercials as well; one in particular is so “bad” I often wondered why this company would continue to produce them , would it not hurt their image? , I was told by an old boss of mine who now teaches advertising, that the mere fact that I remember the spots id seen regardless of what it looked like meant that their advertising was working, which is sort of true as I do recognize their brand were I didn’t before…
 
Correcto Mundo. You'll either remember it because you love it or because you hate. Just like the Burger King commercials. We had a thread about those because they are creepy.
 
onetrackmind said:
I’ve seen horrible local commercials as well; one in particular is so “bad” I often wondered why this company would continue to produce them , would it not hurt their image? , I was told by an old boss of mine who now teaches advertising, that the mere fact that I remember the spots id seen regardless of what it looked like meant that their advertising was working, which is sort of true as I do recognize their brand were I didn’t before…
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Yeah, but...we had this car dealership in my hometown that produced terrible(i mean the worst quality spots, poorly lit, over exposed) and I cant recall anyone purchasing a car there. Out of business. :banned:

JD
 
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