Going into a AF100 production this weekend blind.

personally I do hope you go with af100 because the red is just starting to dominate the industry where it's becoming a homogenous image where everything looks alike because everything is shot on Red. and plus i'd love to see more af100 footage shot in a professional/studio manner like short films etc. but with that said like I said, there simply is no comparison between the two. one is Raw 4k with close to 14 stops of DR one is highly compressed/noisy not even 2k with DR similar to a dslr
 
...but I'd also be bold and daring and enjoy using your lovely new cam.

Surely the best way to learn and love it is on a job with the lenses you already know.
 
Homunculus said:
personally I do hope you go with af100 because the red is just starting to dominate the industry where it's becoming a homogenous image where everything looks alike because everything is shot on Red.
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Of course not. Images shot on Red look they way the cinematographer wants them to look.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
 
Ticheli said:
Of course not. Images shot on Red look they way the cinematographer wants them to look.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
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the inherent quality of the image doesn't change. i can usually spot Red footage pretty easily. Are you saying you can't?
It's not that hard, it has a particular quality to it I would think most industry professionals (i'm not one) would be able to spot Red footage no matter who the DP is. And because of this alot of low to mid level indie is a tad homogenized as opposed to having a bigger variety of 'looks' to the films
 
Ticheli said:
I mean to mention the post "issue;" I don't know why this is still hanging on, but there is NO problem with Red footage in post. It does take longer to log and transfer into Final Cut because the files are quite large, but it's exactly the same workflow as with the AF100. Download into the system, Log & Transfer, edit. Done.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
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Don't Log & Transfer. Use RedCineX or Clipfinder to make your transcodes, edit with those, then use Clipfinder to reconform back to R3D/proxies, Send to Color, use Clipfinder to fix the loop bug in the Color project, grade in Color, Render, send back to FCP. That will be a much quicker workflow and RedCineX and Clipfinder are much faster than L&T for making transcodes.
 
Brian@202020 said:
Yes and no. It is very similar yes, but am willing to deliver ProRes files converted from the AVCCAM footage since it doesn't take that long. I however am not willing to deliver transcoded RED footage. I don't have the time allocated to do this on my machine for no extra money. I have things to do, and other shoots to worry about. The director does not own a computer so she would have to not only pay someone to edit but to transcode the footage as well if we went RED. She has very little money, so if I give her RAW files, it'll sit on a shelf for a year until she has the money to finish it. If it was my project it would be a different story, I would make the time.

Now all that said I agree with you HeavyG. It is better to have a director yell at me for that, but the correct lenses mean a lot. That is a huge part of the equation for me.
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That's when you present the options to the client, informing the client the advantages and limitations to each option (including that the camera is new and know one has a lot of experience with it) as well as the cost of each option, and let the client decide. If the AF100 isn't enough to hold up then it's the client's fault for not putting up the extra money.
 
Homunculus said:
personally I do hope you go with af100 because the red is just starting to dominate the industry where it's becoming a homogenous image where everything looks alike because everything is shot on Red. and plus i'd love to see more af100 footage shot in a professional/studio manner like short films etc. but with that said like I said, there simply is no comparison between the two. one is Raw 4k with close to 14 stops of DR one is highly compressed/noisy not even 2k with DR similar to a dslr
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Not everything is shot with Red. I see more projects shot with Canon 5Dm2 and 7D than anything else. If anything, the Red allows you to get a more unique look because you can do so much with the RAW files and push the image so far.
 
Homunculus said:
the inherent quality of the image doesn't change. i can usually spot Red footage pretty easily. Are you saying you can't?
It's not that hard, it has a particular quality to it I would think most industry professionals (i'm not one) would be able to spot Red footage no matter who the DP is. And because of this alot of low to mid level indie is a tad homogenized as opposed to having a bigger variety of 'looks' to the films
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Actually, there have been tests where "industry professionals," cinematographers, in fact, could not distinguish 35MM film from Red footage on a 40' screen. Certainly every camera has inherent characteristics, but they pale in comparison to the vast array of looks cinematographers produce.

The AF100 has characteristics, but just look at the wide range of looks we've seen from the AF100 footage, from the heavily desaturated western opera to the natural landscapes to the dark, rich city scenes.

Forgive me for being direct, but your claim that all Red footage looks the same is just, well, let's just say, fanciful.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
 
Mike@AF said:
Don't Log & Transfer. Use RedCineX or Clipfinder to make your transcodes, edit with those, then use Clipfinder to reconform back to R3D/proxies, Send to Color, use Clipfinder to fix the loop bug in the Color project, grade in Color, Render, send back to FCP. That will be a much quicker workflow and RedCineX and Clipfinder are much faster than L&T for making transcodes.
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I don't know this workflow, it sounds intriguing. I may have to look into this for future projects.

Mike@AF said:
That's when you present the options to the client, informing the client the advantages and limitations to each option (including that the camera is new and know one has a lot of experience with it) as well as the cost of each option, and let the client decide. If the AF100 isn't enough to hold up then it's the client's fault for not putting up the extra money.
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I have brought up the pluses and minuses with both options. She was torn much like I am. She said she trusts me and which ever way I decide she'll be ok with. The post really isn't my concern, but put in the context of the lack of lens choices it was enough to just push me towards the AF100. I'd rather have an great looking project shot on the AF100 and prime lenses see the light of day than a decent RED project shot with only one not so good zoom lens sit on a shelf. Now If I get those primes for the RED, an awesome project on the RED that has potential to sit on the shelf is worth it to me.
 
Brian@202020 said:
I don't know this workflow, it sounds intriguing. I may have to look into this for future projects..
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You almost need to use RedCineX to take advantage of the new Color Science anyway. Also, with RedCineX you can make proper transcodes of anamorphic footage. There's other advantages too. FCP L&T with Red footage is not the way to go.
 
Mike@AF said:
You almost need to use RedCineX to take advantage of the new Color Science anyway. Also, with RedCineX you can make proper transcodes of anamorphic footage. There's other advantages too. FCP L&T with Red footage is not the way to go.
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Yeah I knew I had to use RedcineX to utilize the new color science, but I haven't used Clipfinder.
 
How about the Director creating storyboards and knowing exactly what shots/lenses you will need before you start? Then make your decision. The ProRes proxies from the RED should produce good results. But if you are getting your own AF-100, I'd use the borrowed AF-100. Have you experience on the RED, the RED is a "slower more deliberate" operation. The RED is actually an order of magnitude more labour intensive than the AF-100.
 
Brian@202020 said:
Yeah I knew I had to use RedcineX to utilize the new color science, but I haven't used Clipfinder.
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Clipfinder will make your life a little easier when dealing with Red workflow. It's my goto app for reconforming a FCP sequence from transcoded footage to proxies so I can send to Color and grade with the R3Ds. It's also what I use to fix the looping bug in Color projects and it does it very quickly. I use RedCineX to create transcodes with a quick color correction to edit with.

vic777 said:
How about the Director creating storyboards and knowing exactly what shots/lenses you will need before you start? Then make your decision.
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It depends on the type of project. If it's a narrative, then maybe, but it's also greatly up to the DP as well. And on any type of project if cost is an issue then it's really up to the producer or the client.

vic777 said:
The ProRes proxies from the RED should produce good results. But if you are getting your own AF-100, I'd use the borrowed AF-100. Have you experience on the RED, the RED is a "slower more deliberate" operation. The RED is actually an order of magnitude more labour intensive than the AF-100.
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I disagree. There's less options to think about or worry about with the Red. You set it up (resolution, framerate, color temp, etc.) and just shoot. And once you have it set up you just keep shooting. And then when you get into post production you have a lot more to work with because or Red RAW and because of the extra resolution. If I had the option of Red vs AF100 for a shoot I'd go with the Red if cost wasn't an issue. If cost is an issue then that's a different matter. Also, don't edit with the proxies, at least not with FCP (I haven't tried it with PP). They'll load, but it will be sluggish at best. Transcode, edit, reconform when the edit is done.
 
I wish you luck. The thought alone to go into a shoot with a brand new cam makes me sweat. Then on the other hand, I did it many times and after the shoot comes the relieve and the higher self esteem because you did it, and the reward in the form of a few bottles of good old Amstel beer :-)

I'm sure it's not good for the heart though!
 
I ended up going with the AF100. Day one of the shoot is over and I have to say I'm impressed with the camera. I haven't looked over the footage with a fine tooth comb, but at first glance the footage looks amazing, and I pushed the codec in one of the scenes last night pretty good. I had the camera for a day and a half before the shoot to get used to it, do some tests, and tweak the settings. I'll post stills and footage in a day or so when the shoot is done. Ok I'm off to day two soon, overnight, roller rink.
 
I'm pleased for you that you chose the AF100, and glad you've been enjoying the experience to boot. Brave of you, well done!
 
Brain: you're a hero. I look forward to your footage and please let us know what settings worked best for you.
 
Ok, last night kinda sucked for many reasons. Not because of the camera tho. The camera preformed very well. The only real thing I can say camera wise is I wished it had a bit more latitude. I'm not saying the latitude is limited on the AF100 just that there were a few shots where I would have had less problems if I chose the RED. Over all I'm still impressed with the camera. I just hope tomorrow goes better and everything on set runs more efficiently so I have an actual film to show you at some point and not just footage and stills.
 
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