Giving Raw footage To Clients/Memory card vs. Tapes

PerroneFord said:
BUT, unlike on a PC, you can't just hand a MAC person raw files (no structure) and have it work. He asked me why it was so complicated. Then I opened my laptop, opened Vegas, and drag and dropped his files onto my timeline.
Click to expand...

Welcome to my #1 gripe about FCP. I could understand why people enjoyed it so much during the tape days, but FCP's implementation of tapeless workflows is just embarrassing, compared to everyone else's.

I find it laughable that JVC's out there promoting "the world's fastest workflow" as if it's some sort of revolution, or some sort of "new thing". Yes you can shoot in Quicktime on a JVC HM700 or HM100 and drop the files directly in the FCP timeline. Well, welcome to 2004, folks, when you could do that all day long in EDIUS or Avid with P2 material.

Apple supports native file editing for the JVC HM cameras. Avid, SpeedEdit, EDIUS, Premiere Pro CS4.1, and Vegas all support native file editing for every camera made, and have done so for years.*


He sat there slack-jawed and asked me if Vegas was available for the Mac. :)
Click to expand...
Sure. Just install Bootcamp... :thumbsup:

Or, easier, have him consider that Premiere Pro CS4 is available on the Mac and pretty much supports every native camera file format too.

please let's keep Mac and PC issues out of here if possible
Click to expand...
Not Mac vs. PC in my post. It's FCP vs. everything else. Premiere Pro and Avid are both also available on the Mac, and have none of the limitations against file-based workflows that FCP has.

*minor quibbles here & there; Avid and SpeedEdit don't yet support AVCHD files, and Vegas doesn't support P2 without Raylight, but in general, every editor but FCP fully embraces the idea of tapeless file editing. FCP rejects the concept outright, unless the camera bends to FCP's Quicktime format.
 
PerroneFord said:
I don't understand this transcode to DVCProHD.

You take 1920x1080 4:2:0 information from the HMC150, and throw away a bunch of resolution to get to 1280x1080 with the same color information you already had.

How is this a good thing?
Click to expand...

It's only a "good thing" if your editor doesn't support AVCHD. If it doesn't, you have to convert to something else.

Truthfully, at least on the HMC150, it sounds a lot worse than it actually is. DVCPRO-HD's raster is 1280x1080, but in reality the HMC150's only delivering around 1440x810 worth of detail anyway, so the overall resolution hit isn't that bad.

DVCPRO-HD is at least a highly editable codec. And the end result of the quality of the footage is certainly much higher than the results from Voltaic's conversion.
 
MadHMC150 said:
1280x1080... I think you mean 1280x720? you shouldn't have to throw away resolution and can stay 1920x1080...
Click to expand...

No, Perone is right. DVCProHD doesn't do 1920x1080 and 1280x720, it does 1280x1080 and 960x720 using pixels with a 1.33 ratio. As Barry pointed out, with the HMC's pixel shifted CCD's it's really not much of a hit. But it's still a hit.
 
I am only looking to transcode to dvcprohd because that is what a client is comfortable with editing. They would like the footage in that format and I am not going to talk them out of it and potentially lose the job. I explained the benefits but the video is straight to the web and the client just want's a workflow that they know and are comfortable with.
 
tony240sx said:
I never heard of this. So this program will allow me to install the panny transcoder and go the dvcprohd right on my mac? How does this work for? Any hangups in speed or performance?
Click to expand...

Is an app that will let you run "That" windows program that you need, it works pretty good! and is all while running mac OS, not just a windows emulator! for my understanding it works by running the code inside the app and transforming it on the fly to something Mac OSX will understand...
I tried not to mention all this options, includding the actual fact that you could run windows on a mac *legally* but it defeats the purpose of owning a mac :thumbsup:

As far as the dvcprohd transcoder go from panasonic, I haven't used it personally but *Eli* has and works good for him... but is not our kind of workflow as we both use FCP and "log and transfer". We just like to know what's possible in case we need to.

I know he (Elias Neris) was trying this method because he had a client trying to edit some AVCHD clips on his windows machine (slow PC running CS3) so he had to make sure the client would be able to edit the footage! and that would probably meant giving the client a transcoded file on a hard drive... The guy admits himself not being computer literate, and not willing to upgrade for just one job!
 
Not Mac vs. PC in my post. It's FCP vs. everything else. Premiere Pro and Avid are both also available on the Mac, and have none of the limitations against file-based workflows that FCP has.
Click to expand...

If Premier Pro had the "3 way color corrector" that you find on FCP i might just change, but Premier is kind of slow on the mac as well (maybe CS5 would take care of that)... As far as Avid goes, I'm not bashing it but for me the interface and the way you go from one mode to the other is just to weird... Maybe good if you were editing since back in the day, but for ease of use on the interface i stick to FCP (but keeping an eye on premier)

I see "log and transfer" like a good thing, You're able to do color grading and other stuff to your footage without the need to render every 5seconds or taking a big performance hit (all programs that do AVCHD natively take a big hit)


I know P2 was a better faster workflow in 2004, but i wasn't using it since then!. To me FCP makes sense for my type of workflow... Now if the "Grass" was to be greener right on OSX and not Windows only, i might consider it!
 
This is all very informative, I have to dissect it all.

Would a second camera using DV tapes be an option going forward?
 
Our workflow:

1. Copy files from SDHC to HDD
2. Have client who 'must have' the raw data buy and send me an external HDD
3. If they send it to me, copy the compressed files to their drive and send it. Very, very few of my clients who 'must have' the raw data take the time to send me a hard drive. I'm happy with that, as I really don't like clients combing through my garbage can, so to speak.

I don't give away cards because I may need them the next day and don't want to orchestrate that.
 
For someone who is use to capturing footage from DV Tapes (like myself), in say, final cut etc. (Note, I haven't actually discovering my own "workflow," yet, I just received the camera). How can I make it easy for a layman.

For example, what would be the best file to convert to? would it make sense for me to give them say, a .mov file? .avi? etc. that is workable in most editing programs?
 
I just did a shoot for a client yesterday, is about a book that'll be release in two weeks and they want to do some promo clips... anyway, my producer asked me to give him the files and handed me a 1TB hard drive, i know they'll be editing this piece in FCP6.0.5 so i loaded the Disk with the "Private" folders and also did a transcode to ProRess 422.

Like that they could do whatever they want with it!!!

But i usually only hand the DVD+DL with the private folders inside... like that they could work in Windows or Mac, on the program of their choice!!!
 
Cranky said:
You got it backwards. It is much more likely that an average Joe has a computer with an SDHC slot (or a $10 USB adapter) than a DV/HDV deck.
Click to expand...

This is a pretty broad statement. DV has been around for many more years than the recent advent of SDHC. When you are working with people IN THE FIELD, most are going to have a way of capturing DV from a tape (especially if that's what they are most likely looking for anyways). We are also discussing the difference in work flow AFTER the capture. Getting the data is not really a problem, its making sure the data works with the clients work flow that presents a problem.

Cranky said:
How much do you charge per event? $500? $1000? $1500? A 16GB card holds two hours and costs $35. This is peanuts.
Click to expand...

Depends on how much you are getting and if the client would pay for the card(s) extra. 100 Minutes on a 16gb is nothing when you are shooting a 3 hour concert with 3 cameras. A good card is $50-$90 with shipping etc. I would be hard pressed giving 6 cards away in my prices let alone expect the client to pay an extra $100 a camera to get the footage.

Plus, what the hell is a client going to do with his 6 SDHC cards worth $300 after capturing the video? I would probably resort to RENTING them the cards for $100 a week or so.
 
Last edited:
Mad makes some good points. It really depends on the shoot and everything involved. If the client would like the cards directly and is willing to pay the price than it is definitely an option. I try to take each job and find a workflow that works best for the clients NLE or what they are comfortable with. The last shoot I did, the client wanted dvcprohd and I was looking for a way to transcode to that on my macbook pro right after the shoot. Eventually the client decided to give prores a try and I log and transferred the footage right away and dumped it along with the private folder onto a firewire drive.
 
Plus, what the hell is a client going to do with his 6 SDHC cards worth $300 after capturing the video? I would probably resort to RENTING them the cards for $100 a week or so.
Click to expand...

I was thinking about that! but for that price you could just give them a HardDrive... One of my regular clients is in the process of getting a few cards, like that he gets the footage right away. I should also mention that i back my cards up on the field. So even if he manages to mess the card or the files, i would still have a backup!
 
Right. Lend the cards, and if the client did not return them, bill him. Or copy to an external HDD, this is great solution! These cute paperback-sized HDDs are sold for about $100 and can store 300-500 GB. Another $100 for WD TV, and a client will be able to watch raw clips right on his TV set.
 
Another $100 for WD TV, and a client will be able to watch raw clips right on his TV set.
Click to expand...

Yes sir, it works great... you could even put a usb card reader with your SDHC card and view the footage right from the card!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top