Give me PROS and CONS on latest MAGIC LANTERN firmware!! Still got bugs?
- Thread starter JoeJITSU
- Start date
gonzo_entertainment
Veteran
I still haven't done it either. Stable increased bit rates (for post purposes) is really what I'm waiting for. Don't need most of the other features.
If I were you, I would just install it and try it out. The install process is super easy. All you have to do is install a slightly modified version of Canon's firmware and then you're off and running. If you find that you don't like ML, you can just put Canon's firmware back on it and format your CF card, and you're back to normal. So there's not really a risk or a huge time commitment to try it out for yourself and see if you like it.
Note: I've only done this on a T2i, but the install/uninstall process should be identical.
Note: I've only done this on a T2i, but the install/uninstall process should be identical.
Pro's - Focus peaking is nearly invaluable. Even in stills mode it works very well with manual focus lenses. When running a fast lens on a stabilizer it makes all the difference in the world to have some focus verification. On board timelapse is incredible too! There are too many advantages to mention, but those are my most loved ones.
Con's - The high bitrate seems to do nothing what so ever to the image quality. I have taken a few dozen clips between 45mbps to almost 100mbps and have yet to be able to determine a single pixel anywhere that is improved. I've tried examples with motion, with high detail with anything I can think of that might show where the added bitrate is going and I can't find it. The noise profile is exactly the same between the normal and high bit rates, preventing any boosting of the shadows in post. The files are way bigger for sure, but I really don't think it does anything to image quality in any way. I'd love to be proven wrong, but my tests with the T3i have shown zilch for improvement with higher bit rates.
Cheers,
Pete
Con's - The high bitrate seems to do nothing what so ever to the image quality. I have taken a few dozen clips between 45mbps to almost 100mbps and have yet to be able to determine a single pixel anywhere that is improved. I've tried examples with motion, with high detail with anything I can think of that might show where the added bitrate is going and I can't find it. The noise profile is exactly the same between the normal and high bit rates, preventing any boosting of the shadows in post. The files are way bigger for sure, but I really don't think it does anything to image quality in any way. I'd love to be proven wrong, but my tests with the T3i have shown zilch for improvement with higher bit rates.
Cheers,
Pete
Chris Santucci
Veteran
I expected as much, that's why I never bothered with ML.
The menus become way more complicated which is another reason I never bothered with it.
gonzo_entertainment
Veteran
Same here. A lot of complication for minimal benefit. My monitor has focus assist and false color, I always run separate sound, etc...
If the bitrate increase bought anything I'd be willing to give it a shot, but not so far it seems.
+1 - I concur wholeheartedly.
Honestly, the added menus are not very complex at all. IMHO it's more just a matter of combating the lowest common denominator nature of of the dumbed down OE Canon menus and info displays (which seemed to be designed for use by a 10 year old), and giving you some actual adult-level control and monitoring of your camera's functions.
Not a slight against those who choose to not use ML, the cameras are still more than capable without it. After all, strong technical knowledge isn't a prerequisite to create great imagery - I personally know Oscar winning cinematographers who don't even know how to power up the cameras they use, much less install a hack.
analog_addict
Well-known member
I couldn't imagine using a DSLR without ML! I have just got my 5D and shot a film recently with the latest AJ ML firmware and it is very stable, I had no problems with it. ML Unified on my 550D is very buggy. It has way more features than AJ but gave me a lot of errors.
I feel sorry for people shooting without ML, must be a nightmare! I only really use it for cropmarks, zebras and of course the awesome audio controls.
I feel sorry for people shooting without ML, must be a nightmare! I only really use it for cropmarks, zebras and of course the awesome audio controls.
tom_wise
Well-known member
Ahh, appreciate the sentiment. As I like to say, there's more than one way to make potato salad (DON't say this to your Mom!)!
I venture if you ask the other posters in this thread who do not use ML, you'll find a nice variable of recipes.
Me:
1. Cropmarks. I come from Stills land. I am used to looking thru the viewfinder or even on that 'big' screen on the back panel and 'seeing' my crop marks.
2. Zebra's. I take one still prior to shooting, use the histogram, adjust if necessary.
3. I have more than one audio solution. But the Cameras' standard solution is fine.
edit: Meant to thank the other posters who clued me in on the Bit rate phenomenon!
Chris Santucci
Veteran
I own and shoot with a Red One, so complicated menus - I'm not a stranger to. One of the joys of working with a 5DMKII are the simplistic menus which in fact allow me (for one) to access and change settings easily, simply, and quickly. In fact, I made enough last year just from shooting jobs on the 5DMKII (without "adult-level control" of ML) to purchase said Red One, so guys - don't feel too sorry for those of us who don't use it :happy:
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JoeJITSU
Veteran
Roberto Tafuro
Well-known member
Well,i've tried some ML versions,expecially to see if the bitrate control changes something to my native footage. Unfortunately from what i've seen nothing really changes. The inglorious 5D blocks are still there. So i've buy NeatVideo and Cineform. I'm realist,we can't convert magically a 4:2:0 in a real 4:2:2,but the picture became much better after converting it in Cineform and applied NeatVideo on it. At this moment the real working hack is the driftwood for the GH2...i've compared its footage with my AVCIntra100 from 301 and it's really close to it. The best DSLR codec/hack i've ever seen. For the other options i really don't care. I use the 5D for videoclips or commercials,so i use a spot meter and the SWIT waveform. Cropmarks are not a problem,audio is recorded with Zoom H4n or other ext hardware and for the focus...well we make some more shots just to be sure!
If the Unified ML will increase the picture quality i'll give it another try...i'm waiting for it. Not really interested to HDR (is another software trick that may works or not according to me)...
Have an happy new year 5D users!!!!
Bests,
Roberto
If the Unified ML will increase the picture quality i'll give it another try...i'm waiting for it. Not really interested to HDR (is another software trick that may works or not according to me)...
Have an happy new year 5D users!!!!
Bests,
Roberto
Ted Ramasola
Veteran
The unified ML now looks streamlined as far as menus go.
They look much better and pro looking now than when ML first came out.
So far its running stable in my 5D.
Also. integration with the canon firmware seem to be seamless now. You can even format the card and leave ML untouched.
It is only loaded once and its there everytime you turn on the camera.
The focus peaking alone is worth it. When you run and gun and use a VF finder type of loupe it nails focus for you fast.
Live waveform or histogram also helps when your doing hot exteriors and lots of shiny and hot highlights.
Low framerate helps for locked down shots during night/dark wideshot architectural or landscape exteriors. -cleaner than increasing your ISO.
Theres more, HDR works in certain scenes.
The camera now continues to record after the limit is reached, only its different files, so just connect them in post( there are a couple of frames in gap).
I suggest you guys try it. Its the first time I ever used ML when the unified came out before christmas and I'm satisfied.
They look much better and pro looking now than when ML first came out.
So far its running stable in my 5D.
Also. integration with the canon firmware seem to be seamless now. You can even format the card and leave ML untouched.
It is only loaded once and its there everytime you turn on the camera.
The focus peaking alone is worth it. When you run and gun and use a VF finder type of loupe it nails focus for you fast.
Live waveform or histogram also helps when your doing hot exteriors and lots of shiny and hot highlights.
Low framerate helps for locked down shots during night/dark wideshot architectural or landscape exteriors. -cleaner than increasing your ISO.
Theres more, HDR works in certain scenes.
The camera now continues to record after the limit is reached, only its different files, so just connect them in post( there are a couple of frames in gap).
I suggest you guys try it. Its the first time I ever used ML when the unified came out before christmas and I'm satisfied.
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Ted Ramasola
Veteran
There are more features from the previous versions that are still there.
For those not familiar with ML (like me)
It gives you headphone monitoring during record! (with volume control!)
Also, "dual system sound" kinda, when it allows you to assign different sound inputs to the L/R channel.
For instance, internal mic on one channel and mic in on the other.
Although I use an external recorder, this is cool for run and gun situations.
For those not familiar with ML (like me)
It gives you headphone monitoring during record! (with volume control!)
Also, "dual system sound" kinda, when it allows you to assign different sound inputs to the L/R channel.
For instance, internal mic on one channel and mic in on the other.
Although I use an external recorder, this is cool for run and gun situations.
"Dual System Sound" is a well established filmmaking term and means recording audio to a separate device, not recording sound in the camera. What you are referring to is simply recording two mono tracks on a stereo device.
I know nobody here cares about proper filmmaking and cinematography terminology, but I'll keep trying anyway. :beer:
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Ted Ramasola
Veteran
:beer:...your right. Even though its in quotes... you're right about proper terminology.
Magic Lantern is mandatory for any serious video work; be it high end clients, festival entries, etc.
You get total, manual, control of all the factors (iso, kelvins, color, shutter, aperture, AUDIO) of your image in addition to some new functionality that may prove useful to you (increased bitrate, crop marks, etc)
I use it for my T2i and once I get my 5d (when the mark III comes out and the II gets cheaper so I can afford it on my college budget) it is going on there as well.
gonzo_entertainment
Veteran
"Magic Lantern is mandatory for any serious video work"
No it's not, it's ONE way to get some useful functionality that can also be gotten from other sources. The audio control being the least of those as nobody "serious" is recording audio into the camera except for maybe event work.
No it's not, it's ONE way to get some useful functionality that can also be gotten from other sources. The audio control being the least of those as nobody "serious" is recording audio into the camera except for maybe event work.