Ghosting and Trails?

Looks like temporal averaging to reduce CMOS sensor noise (that is, noise reduction running in the background).
Can anyone at Panasonic comment on whether or not that's the case?
 
klon said:
Shooter-

While we may not get any quantifiable results from this test I think it shows pretty clearly what can happen in real-world scenarios. The ghosting here is certainly visible, and while some controlled testing may help us isolate the issue, this informal observation is not without value.

It's not a big enough issue to really change much, but it never helps to know the limitations of whatever system you're working with.
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Real world scenario for me would be focussed, lit and exposed correctly however.... my point is....the other "issues in the image are very distracting for a test and maybe be contributing to the issue.

I asked about the lens also because I wondered what abberation may have been created by defocussing it.
 
And real world for me would be less-than-ideal scenarios such as those encountered in nonfiction shooting. Regardless, I'm not sure a lens could be causing ghosting...

I agree Lyris, it feels like a CMOS temporal averaging issue.

And I don't mean to be a nag Shooter, because I'd also love to see what happens with the ghosting in all kinds of situations including well-lit, well-focused shots.
 
Neil Burner said:
here is another still Im going to upload some video shortly. Notice the ghosting in between my fingers.

hand.png
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That looks really bad, theres like an alter invisible hand there. I don't know what that is, but its not pretty and I wouldn't know whats causing that. If I were you I'd try to get an answer from Panasonic on how to eliminate that and try to find out whats causing it in the first place.

As for anyone saying its not a big issue because they wouldn't shoot something like that... Well it could be a huge issue if you're shooting TONS of different scenarios where you want darker footage with action like say a horror movie, or even just live footage of a band on stage when the stage lights change between songs/hits.
 
Real world scenario for me would be focussed, lit and exposed correctly however.... my point is....the other "issues in the image are very distracting for a test and maybe be contributing to the issue.

I asked about the lens also because I wondered what abberation may have been created by defocussing it.
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Exactly!!! This camera is created especially for controlled situations. Why do you think Barry and the others went trough such effort to show us how the camera performs in the situation it was created for. If people are going to complain about something please take the time and lit, focus, expose correctly! That is what Timur and his crew did.
 
I do think that there should be an off switch for any sort of Noise Reduction process (if that is indeed the case). This is a professional camera, if noise reduction is needed then I would much rather do it in post where we have total control.
 
I believe the new HPX370 firmware effectively gives you an 'off' switch for the noise reduction and I'm told this helps massively with the ghosting/trailing noise issue. There's a penalty in sensitivity but I just don't want sensitvity if it's at the cost of artefacts like this. Is there any way to control the NR in the AF100 menus? Barry?
 
Sorry that these "test" aren't the best and in an ideal situation for some but the night before I was shooting some city broll and noticed something that didn't look right with the motion of the footage. The effect was happening on the edges of buildings, street signs, people walking ect. The reason I posted these images is to clearly display what I think was causing that problem and if anyone else with the af100 had noticed this as well. I shoot allot of music videos in all different lighting conditions and sometimes have to shoot at 1600iso.
 
Here's the thread for the similar hpx370 issue.
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?216708-Noise-on-movement
As mentioned above, it turned out to be a noise reduction issue, and panny released an update that allowed you to turn it off. The result was about a stop and a half loss in sensitivity.
Like Neil said, it's an issue that's hard to put your finger on in properly lit and focused circumstances, but is still there and it's ugly. (Talking about my 370, that is).
We had a few interviews, properly lit and exposed, where you could see this ghosting effect on the down side in skin tones of the forehead. Made it look like he was wearing a loose-fitting mask or something.
This has got me a little spooked about the af101.
Would also love to hear from panny on this.
 
joshdstanton said:
Here's the thread for the similar hpx370 issue.
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?216708-Noise-on-movement
As mentioned above, it turned out to be a noise reduction issue, and panny released an update that allowed you to turn it off. The result was about a stop and a half loss in sensitivity.
Like Neil said, it's an issue that's hard to put your finger on in properly lit and focused circumstances, but is still there and it's ugly. (Talking about my 370, that is).
We had a few interviews, properly lit and exposed, where you could see this ghosting effect on the down side in skin tones of the forehead. Made it look like he was wearing a loose-fitting mask or something.
This has got me a little spooked about the af101.
Would also love to hear from panny on this.
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Thanks joshdstanton that looks and sounds very much like what I'm experiencing...any input from panny would be great...
 
After hearing about the quality feedback from GH2 users (with the exception of having the same noise issues as the AF100 in dark greys), I was considering going with an AF100 as my A camera, and then using 2 GH2s as my B and C cameras. It's mostly studio shooting that I'll be doing, but there will also be some run-and-gun style shooting, and now I'm thinking of going back to my original plan of using an AF100, a GH2, and a HMC150. Anyone know when Panasonic might introduce the next iteration/replacement for the HMC150?
 
We have our AF100 now and I'm seeing precisely the same problem. Has anyone managed to eliminate this with in-camera settings? It would also be very interesting to see if capturing to a less aggressive codec (or uncompressed) would give big improvements. Calibrating the camera better to avoid shadow noise definitely puts less stress on the AVCHD codec (of course) and produces images that are much closer to the uncompressed equivalents. I just haven't had time to test the low-light trailing noise on a better codec.

Any progress from anyone on the trailing noise artefacts?
 
I have had no luck...I notice it in more and more footage too...The only way I have been able to minimize it is shoot 200iso but that is kind of disappointing when the camera goes up to 3200...I have not yet tested the SDI out but I doubt there will be any difference. Like others have said its probably some noise reduction that is causing the problem...
 
Barry Green, where are you? :)

Barry Green, where are you? :)

I'm really surprised that there isn't more discussion surrounding this?
Are other people seeing the problem? Are people deciding to just live with it?
Barry, I'd love to have your two cents on this.
Thanks!
 
Looks like it's just a mix if the codec with motion blur. Just watched fight club and saw something similar.
 
I'm sure after all the excitement of everyone getting there new camera people will start to notice it in there footage. It was very noticeable with my camera but maybe it's not so much for others.
 
It looks to me like the codec struggling with motion blur, noise and noise-reduction artefacts. Just like the HPX370 on its original firmware - and that uses AVC-Intra.
 
A still of a swish pan and an out of focus shot of a hand in a dark room doesn't really point to any issues with the camera as far as I can see. Perhaps a better example might help us see what you're talking about.
 
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