ghost picture please help!!!!

S

steinkaf

Member
hallo,

i have found on some shoot gost picture and want to ask is this normal or what do i wrong

1. shoot (child play) with avcintra100 1920x1080/24p 1/500 shutter

pan from right to left with tripod
1. pic in pan (you see the gost in the back on the wall)
2. pic end of pan.( clear wall)

at the small pic it is not so good to see but at the original you see 3-4 bars



2. shoot (food) same size but 1/60 shutter

hand-shoot no tripod

from pic 1 to pic 2 you see the gost of the food was move down


thanks for the help

p.s. sorry about my english
 

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That was, like, not helpful at all.

There has been known issues with artifacting and some other anomalies with the 3MOS when shooting 1080i and I'm sure the faster shutter doesn't help things, either. Have you updated your firmware? I know the latest update fixed some similar anomalies.
 
@ JRJphoto

Thank´s
Yes. have the latest Firmware and the shoot was 1080p. ore is the anomalie all the same at interlace and progressive?


I think it looks if i make a cartoon with pencil and paper with less opacity where the last 3-4 page can see.

Is there a trick where i can minimize the effect or what thing´s should i watch out
 
Here 3 more pic´s frame by frame you can see at the spoon.
 

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I believe it's an issue with the 3MOS sensor and the compression of the AVC-Intra. I've been shooting a lot in 720/24P AVC-Intra100 so I haven't noticed many obtrusive anomalies as the sensor's handling of them increases as the resolution of the acquisition decreases. Besides, since local TV stations down here don't even broadcast past 720/30P, I don't see the point in shooting bigger than that.

BUT...

It could also be your editing timeline. Doing some research for this reply I came across the following quote from a video on Vimeo:

"It seems that this video has been edited in 60i timeline, then deitnerlaced [sic] to 30p with blending fields. I can clearly see ghosting in some of the effects"

This quote comes from the comments to this video: http://www.vimeo.com/5348383

But a reply to that post says that it was probably just compression (which is what I'm thinking).

So try another codec setting, try 720/24P, and make sure your editor's settings are the same as the way it was shot. Hope this helps!
 
Thank you Jason,

you are right wen you say 720 is good, why 1080.
for me i will always the most what i can get. (it´s a little tick from me) so the camera can 1080 then i will shoot 1080.
i have one EX1 and one EX3 and since 1 month the 301e.
i love this camera and are very happy with it, but i have never see´n so problems with ghosting on the ex footage. i think also the 1/3 inch chip with the 100mbs 4:2:2 codec should shoot the same quality or better the ex with ( ok 1/2 inch) 35mbs 4:2:0.

Ok. the wrong timeline and editing setting could´n not the problem. the pic i have taken was in the viewer (FCP7) from the native capture video (export still).
i can also see the ghosting when i the mxf file look the video in quicktime with the mxf4mac plugin.

So i will hear to you and shoot some test in 720 and also will test ( i came from PAL land) 1080 25p if there is a different between 24p and 25p.

i will also hope panasonic will correct this problem with the next firmware ( if the have a camera the can shoot 1080p with AVCintra 100, then should they work with no problem´s)

one more many thank´s to you

Best regards
Roman
 
I think a legitimate question is, do you see it on a monitor hooked up directly to the camera, playing back the P2 cards from the camera? If so, it originates at the camera.

If not, it is something in your post workflow, which, as you know, has a lot of variables.

All troubleshooting consists of is intelligently and in order of the signal chain eliminating variables to isolate the offending device, then you figure out why the offending device is behaving in the way that it is.

Find out of it is the camera first. Might be, might not be.

Dan
 
Hallo Dan

sorry but i have no SDI monitor so could only look at the LCD in the camera.

Workflow:
connect camera as device via usb - with p2cms export to a folder on hd´s
import into FCP7 native or with MXF4mac

when i open P2cms and play the clip direct from the p2-card via usb is this not the same? there is no convert or is this incorrect?

thank´s
Roman
 
Hmm...do you have an analog PAL monitor? The 301/302/300 have a BNC composite output I believe, it would be interesting to know if you could see this artifacting on a PAL rather than HD monitor.

You still need to playback from camera into a monitor to see if this issue is present before you transfer the footage and play it back in another application like P2CMS. Do you have any friends, colleagues or a shop nearby that would have an SDI monitor? Doesn't even have to be HD, you can convert the SDI output to PAL SD as well.

Dan
 
i have now test it. if you look direct from the camera on a monitor is the same.
i have also test some format 1080/25p it is not so havy but it is. 720/25 i could found some time but its very, very small.
after a lot of test i found out this:

on very high contrast (dark back and very high light with sharp edge)
with shutter of, there was mormal motion blur, but if higher shutter you use, so more gost pic ore shadow from de edge you can see. what i mean is on the trail where the motion blur it was, now you see with 1/50= 2 gost´s, 1/100=4 gost`s.....
it looks if the camera make with 1/50 shotter at 1080/25p in the time from 1/25 sec 2 pic ( every 1/50 sec) on the same frame.( i know this from my old 35mm Photo-camera where you can make this take more then 1 shoot at the same picture)
in spacial situation( not at normal condition) i say before, very very hight contrast (white paper on black backround and pan the camera or move the paper, i can see the effect.

now my problem ist this, at this condition normal?
Have anyone the same effect.
or is my camera defect.

thanks

Roman

p.s. sorry my english are very poor
 
I have the same issue, I've spoken to fujinon about it in case it is the lens. When I shoot high contrast scenes I get a ghosted image of the image I am shooting. Almost as if it is a reflection somewhere. Could be the cheap stock lens. I am going to try it with a more high end lens and see what happens.
 
Good that you have narrowed it down to the camera or the lens.

Ryan, let us know what you discover when you try a different lens. When I had the 300, I only used the stock lens and had no issues, but I wasn't scrutinizing the images frame by frame either.

Roman, the next logical thing to try would be what Ryan is doing, try a different lens. There is no menu item or settings to change that should have any effect on this ghosting, so not sure where to tell you look next. If you can try a different lens under similar circumstances and don't see any ghosting, it is probably a lens/reflection issue.

Good luck and you can always talk to Panasonic Europe, that would be my next stop because you have now proven that the issue is from the camera or the lens, not some weird post issue.

Dan
 
Dan, thank you for your help.
i have no chance to try a different lens. i will now do the next step what you say and contact panaonic, but before i will wait and hope Ryan post his test result with a high end lens.
i have start to search frame by frame after the shoot in the kitchen(3 last pic.) were you can see it strong also in realtime.

Ryan, please tell us your test-result. thank´s

Roman
 
My suggestion is for you to take the pictures and the camera to Panasonic Broadcast and have them analyze what is going on. I have never seen anything like this. Odd that there are two of you that seem to be having the problem but that only means that both of you should take your camera and results in to Panasonic for evaluation.

Best regards,

Jan
 
Last weekend we shot a short film for this forum's Monster Fest. Lots of high contrast images. Stock lens, 1080 24P at 1/250 shutter and AVC Intra 100. YEP, had the same problem. Had not seen that same problem before. The odd thing is, it didn't see consistent. There were some shots where frame-by-frame it is VERY noticeable and others with similar fast motion and high contrast it wasn't there.
 
have contact support and they pickup the camera.

have found an other effect.
i shoot some dragonfly on trees where the tree move a little the wind (really little).
on the movement the edges of the branch are clear but it looks the crust always 1 or 2 frames behind the move-speed. it looks really as the crust swims on the branch.

have take a video to vimeo with the, i call swim effect
http://www.vimeo.com/7161085

i will send also a USB-stick with 3 clip´s and edit notes to the support where they can see both effect.
i´m very impressive what they say.

will report after the camera is back.
 
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