GH5 GH5s vs GH4 dynamic range in Cine D

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RedChalice

Active member
anyone know if theres a noticeable improvement in dynamic range between the gh5s and gh4?

I cant find any videos where the two cameras are compared. Aside from
V-Log L, I’m curious if theres more DR in other profiles like cineD between the two cameras.
 
I would say there is no noticeable difference.
I think that the Panasonic GH series is definitely not known for its high dynamic range.
 
I think there are quite a few tests out there if you search. One thing to consider is that the while the GH5s may only have modest DR advantages over the GH4 at base ISO it has significantly more DR at higher ISO's
 
I normally just expose for highlights and bring up shadows in post. Was just curious if there would be a bit more detail in shadows in GH5s than the GH4 i'm used to.
 
RedChalice said:
I normally just expose for highlights and bring up shadows in post. Was just curious if there would be a bit more detail in shadows in GH5s than the GH4 i'm used to.
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Then you expose incorrectly and potentially introduce all kind of problems which may not or not easily, be correctable in post.

For the GH5(s) I would suggest HLG for maximum dynamic range and best color rendition.
 
HLG is easier to grade as it's basically just a flat contrast image but I have reservations about it's color gamut which is not as wide as V-LOG.
 
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Shirozina said:
HLG is easier to grade as it's basically just a flat contrast image but I have reservations about it's color gamut which is not as wide as V-LOG.
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You mean HLG after proper Rec2020 to Rec709 conversion?
Because otherwise colors are all over the place.
 
Shirozina said:
HLG is easier to grade as it's basically just a flat contrast image but I have reservations about it's color gamut which is not as wide as V-LOG.
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I would definitely not grade using an HLG gamma curve but instead use linear or log. It's not just a flat contrast image, HLG is a combination of a gamma and a log curve, NLE controls are not built for that.

For the Panasonic GH5 the color science using V-Log-L is just not right and no way is the GH5 color volume even near the V-Gamut, it's another reason to use HLG instead of V-Log-L.
 
Tom Roper said:
Cary, what is your source for this?
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My eyes!

If you interpret a V-Log-L clip coming from the GH5 as V-Gamut the colors will be over saturated with saturated blues starting to look radio-active.
If you interpret it as Rec709 gamut, is't better but the reds are not quite right. HLG is overal much better.

Panasonic did, in my opinion, a sloppy job mapping GH5 sensor output to V-Gamut color science.
You may also notice that Panasonic never have commented on the specifics of the GH5 gamut through V-Log-L.
 
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Cary Knoop said:
I would definitely not grade using an HLG gamma curve but instead use linear or log. It's not just a flat contrast image, HLG is a combination of a gamma and a log curve, NLE controls are not built for that.

For the Panasonic GH5 the color science using V-Log-L is just not right and no way is the GH5 color volume even near the V-Gamut, it's another reason to use HLG instead of V-Log-L.
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So if HLG is no good for grading and V-Log is no good for colour - what do you advocate for the GH5.
 
Shirozina said:
So if HLG is no good for grading and V-Log is no good for colour - what do you advocate for the GH5.
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I did not say that HLG is not good for grading, what I am saying is to convert the curve to either linear or log and use the appropriate NLE linear or log controls.
No NLE has controls that can natively handle the hybrid curve consistently.

For instance for Resolve you would want to use a timeline colorspace of Gamma 2.4/Rec2020 or Cineon Film Log or ARRI LogC depending on your preferences.
 
Cary Knoop said:
I did not say that HLG is not good for grading, what I am saying is to convert the curve to either linear or log and use the appropriate NLE linear or log controls.
No NLE has controls that can natively handle the hybrid curve consistently.

For instance for Resolve you would want to use a timeline colorspace of Gamma 2.4/Rec2020 or Cineon Film Log or ARRI LogC depending on your preferences.
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Thanks - that makes sense.
 
Cary Knoop said:
My eyes!

If you interpret a V-Log-L clip coming from the GH5 as V-Gamut the colors will be over saturated with saturated blues starting to look radio-active.
If you interpret it as Rec709 gamut, is't better but the reds are not quite right. HLG is overal much better.

Panasonic did, in my opinion, a sloppy job mapping GH5 sensor output to V-Gamut color science.
You may also notice that Panasonic never have commented on the specifics of the GH5 gamut through V-Log-L.
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Yes! Agreed.

There is, decidedly, a solution.

VLog L

GHa%20Tungsten%20Sample%208_zpsyh4djqd1.jpg


EC LogC v2.2

LOGC_1.2.1_zpspws0imfs.jpg


Interpreted with Arri RGB Primaries (note the blues)

V2_zpsv8mp5ywu.png


Original Flawed EC (note the blues)

V1_zps9uf7bi0i.jpg



I've been working with unbroken focus on this singular problem for over a year. And I will say this - I am, very, very pleased with where things are right now.
 
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The only definitive info is p. 211 of the user manual, which says you can choose sRGB or Adobe RGB except for motion pictures which by default will be sRGB. But for the icons representing the applicable modes of that information; creative picture mode is grayed out.


Regardless, the native color space is GH5 base, all else is mapped.
 
brudney said:
What are they exactly? Besides potentially some noise in the shadows?
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Traditionally with 8 bit 4.2.0 highly compressed codecs you needed to place the tones exactly in the right place otherwise you run the risk of introducing banding or other artefacts when you move them to another point on the curve in grading. ETTR is essentially an exposure method for RAW where the response curve is not baked into the data and all that matters is maximising the S/N ratio. However with 10bit 4.2.2 higher bitrate codecs you do get a more leaway and with the 'limited' DR of the GH5 sensor it's OK to concentrate on minimising noise knowing the higher bit depth, bit rate and chroma subsampling will cut you more slack in grading.
 
Some people will simply not listen, to those I would suggest to just go ahead and do not expose right and use all kind of idiotic camera settings and on top use some super secret special LUT having the words Red, ARRI, Alexa or filmic in it.
Surely you 'd be miles ahead of those fools who use the camera the way it was actually designed.
 
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