GH4 GH5: Wide angle recommendation for GH5 + speedbooster XL

[J__]

Hi everyone, I have a GH5 + speedbooster XL and is looking for some wide angle lens recommendations.
Currently own a Sigma Art 35 (35x2x0.64=45mm) and Art 50 (50x2x0.64=64mm).

Looking for 2 lens that would give me approx 20-24mm and 30-35mm full frame equivalent.

Art 24mm would be enough to give a 30mm equiv with the SB xl, but stuck on ideas for a wide 24mm equiv.

Was looking at the Veydra 12mm but ideally want a FF ef mount lens so it can be used on my other FF Canon dslr's. Veydra would only just work on m4/3 mount crops, and the SB xl would vignette ef-s lenses on the GH5.

Also ideally a sharp constant faster than f2.8 lens, and must have front threads so I can attach filters (so no bulging front elements)...

Even vintage manual lenses would be ok for me since I don't use AF much.

Not a fan of the m4/3 pany/leica/olympus lenses since I feel they are super overpriced for what you get.

Thanks!

 

[c3hammer]

The whole speedbooster thing for those wide angles on the GH5 is a non starter if you ask me. My experience with an Olympus OM 24mm f/2 manual lens and the Speedbooster 0.71x was horrible. That's about a 35mm equivalent and even the Olympus M.zuiko 17mm f/1.8 is way better. The Panasonic 15mm is another level above that

Believe it or not even the native m43 Samyang 12mm mixes very well with speedboosted normal FOV lenses. In order to compete you'd have to use a Canon 24mm f/1.4 II or similar and then you be way more expensive than just buying the Pan/Leica 12mm f/1.4 and 15mm f/1.7 which are incredible lenses.

Just my $0.02 on the wide end of the speedbooster isuse

Cheers, Pete

 

[Cary Knoop]

For wide angles I use the Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8 mark II (the mark I is reported to have focus issues with the speed booster).

With the ultra you effectively have a 8-12mm f/2.0 lens.

However auto focus is slow if it works at all and the lens is a bit soft to my liking and does have a fair amount of chromatic aberration, however after the speed booster the lens becomes a very wide and fast f/2.0 lens.

 

[filmguy123]

Depending on what you're looking and how much use it would get, there are worse things than investing in 1x M43 lens. The wide end of M43 is the area where I tend to find a native lens is the most needed, just because of the specialty crop factor.

A used Olympus 12mm can be had for pretty cheap. The manual focus Voigtlander 10.5 is great. And there's a new Pana Leica 8-18.

I realize these don't fit the speedbooster bill but given the extreme focal lengths might be worth making your one native m43 glass investment. Also one thing to think about is how handy M43 cameras are in your larger lineup for lightweight options and gimbal work, which tends to be on the wide end, so this could help keep that option open for you in the smallest, simplest, lightest form factor possible.

There's also the lumix 12-35; not quite as wide as the others listed but at 24mm equivalent still plenty wide, and a good m43 workhorse lens. The mark I version can currently be had for around $650 I believe and a firmware update gives it Dual IS support.

 

[Peter Berry]

Depending on what you're looking and how much use it would get, there are worse things than investing in 1x M43 lens. The wide end of M43 is the area where I tend to find a native lens is the most needed, just because of the specialty crop factor.

A used Olympus 12mm can be had for pretty cheap. The manual focus Voigtlander 10.5 is great. And there's a new Pana Leica 8-18.

I realize these don't fit the speedbooster bill but given the extreme focal lengths might be worth making your one native m43 glass investment. Also one thing to think about is how handy M43 cameras are in your larger lineup for lightweight options and gimbal work, which tends to be on the wide end, so this could help keep that option open for you in the smallest, simplest, lightest form factor possible.

There's also the lumix 12-35; not quite as wide as the others listed but at 24mm equivalent still plenty wide, and a good m43 workhorse lens. The mark I version can currently be had for around $650 I believe and a firmware update gives it Dual IS support.

Then there's the recent Pana-Leica 12mm/1.4 Summilux - pricy at $1300, but excellent from wide open...

http://www.imaging-resource.com/lenses/panasonic/12mm-f1.4-asph-leica-dg-summilux/review/

 

[J__]

The whole speedbooster thing for those wide angles on the GH5 is a non starter if you ask me. My experience with an Olympus OM 24mm f/2 manual lens and the Speedbooster 0.71x was horrible. That's about a 35mm equivalent and even the Olympus M.zuiko 17mm f/1.8 is way better. The Panasonic 15mm is another level above that

Believe it or not even the native m43 Samyang 12mm mixes very well with speedboosted normal FOV lenses. In order to compete you'd have to use a Canon 24mm f/1.4 II or similar and then you be way more expensive than just buying the Pan/Leica 12mm f/1.4 and 15mm f/1.7 which are incredible lenses.

Just my $0.02 on the wide end of the speedbooster isuse

Cheers, Pete

Pete what's you're experience with the speedboosted wides? Just not as sharp or good as the narrower lenses? I was planning on getting a 24mm art for a 30mm equivalent to use with my sb xl

For wide angles I use the Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8 mark II (the mark I is reported to have focus issues with the speed booster).

With the ultra you effectively have a 8-12mm f/2.0 lens.

However auto focus is slow if it works at all and the lens is a bit soft to my liking and does have a fair amount of chromatic aberration, however after the speed booster the lens becomes a very wide and fast f/2.0 lens.

Ya I saw that lens, but unfortunately it's a crop lens so it'll vignette with my sb xl..

Depending on what you're looking and how much use it would get, there are worse things than investing in 1x M43 lens. The wide end of M43 is the area where I tend to find a native lens is the most needed, just because of the specialty crop factor.

A used Olympus 12mm can be had for pretty cheap. The manual focus Voigtlander 10.5 is great. And there's a new Pana Leica 8-18.

I realize these don't fit the speedbooster bill but given the extreme focal lengths might be worth making your one native m43 glass investment. Also one thing to think about is how handy M43 cameras are in your larger lineup for lightweight options and gimbal work, which tends to be on the wide end, so this could help keep that option open for you in the smallest, simplest, lightest form factor possible.

There's also the lumix 12-35; not quite as wide as the others listed but at 24mm equivalent still plenty wide, and a good m43 workhorse lens. The mark I version can currently be had for around $650 I believe and a firmware update gives it Dual IS support.

I saw some youtube samples of the voigt 10.5, seemed to have lots of chromatic aberration? I don't think I'll be using the super wide too much, just something to have in case i want to go 24mm equiv. I was looking at the kowa prominar 12mm as well, not sure if that's as good as some of the samples i've seen. Not a fan of zooms but I'll look around for used oly 12 mm. New ones are pretty price, here in shanghai, almost same as the new leica pany 12... The native small form factor would be great like you said for gimbal work. I currently use my 35 art on a zy crane gimball

Then there's the recent Pana-Leica 12mm/1.4 Summilux - pricy at $1300, but excellent from wide open...

http://www.imaging-resource.com/lenses/panasonic/12mm-f1.4-asph-leica-dg-summilux/review/

Ya saw that, really nice. I own some leica summilux's for my leica M6 and love them. However it seems a bit pricey for something I'll use maybe 2% of the time. Also because of the m43 mount, I'd imagine it wouldn't have too big of a market if i were to resell it in the future...I could be wrong though

 

[c3hammer]

Pete what's you're experience with the speedboosted wides? Just not as sharp or good as the narrower lenses? I was planning on getting a 24mm art for a 30mm equivalent to use with my sb xl

I'll be honest that my vintage OM 24mm f/2 is not a fair comparison on a regular Metabones 0.71x to newer sigma 24mm art on your xl. I just know that the chromatic aberration and micro contrast just looks skiwampus and not clean. It's not just the softness, but acutance seems off. The 24mm Art might be a completely different ball game. My 50mm f/1.4 is amazing on the sb, so....

As a side note, I do almost all my filming in the mountains up to 10,000' or 11,000' and I have a terrible bias against the weight and size of the speedbooster and larger canon mount zooms mentioned most of the time. I have to pack all this stuff on my back and the native lenses are night and day with what I consider a better image at the wide end. Your application might be very different and that combo could suit you well. If you could go give one a try at the store to compare side by side before buying it would be a huge advantage for you I think.

Cheers, Pete

 

[J__]

I'll be honest that my vintage OM 24mm f/2 is not a fair comparison on a regular Metabones 0.71x to newer sigma 24mm art on your xl. I just know that the chromatic aberration and micro contrast just looks skiwampus and not clean. It's not just the softness, but acutance seems off. The 24mm Art might be a completely different ball game. My 50mm f/1.4 is amazing on the sb, so....

As a side note, I do almost all my filming in the mountains up to 10,000' or 11,000' and I have a terrible bias against the weight and size of the speedbooster and larger canon mount zooms mentioned most of the time. I have to pack all this stuff on my back and the native lenses are night and day with what I consider a better image at the wide end. Your application might be very different and that combo could suit you well. If you could go give one a try at the store to compare side by side before buying it would be a huge advantage for you I think.

Cheers, Pete

ah, got you. Ya i'll go to the Sigma headquarters here and test out the lens with the setup first before buying it. Unfortunately the other lenses I won't be able to test and have to buy them online here. Thanks for your input!



I'm currently looking at the samyang/rokinon 12mm t2.2 cine lens for the 24mm equiv. anyone have experience with that lens? Samples on youtube look pretty great. Just can't find a direct comparison between that lens and the Oly 12mm

 

[filmguy123]

I have the Oly 12mm, Voigt 10.5, and Lumix 12-35.

The Voigt does have image imperfections, its the least perfect of all of their m43 lens kit. Wide open can be a little dicey at f/.95. I wouldn't let that discourage you though... the Voigts have serious character and depending on your persuasions, many find a little imperfection in their lens beautiful. Personally I find the super perfect sharp stuff to look far too clinical. Realistically, keeping anything in focus at .95 on a wide is difficult and you'll likely only use the lens stopped down a little anyway, but it's very sharp even by 1.4.

Don't have the rokinon but the olympus 12 is still a really great lens and can be had for a good price. The biggest factor there would be it's size/weight. It's a tiny, lightweight little lens which could be a pro for you (ie gimbal work).

 

[filmguy123]

here's 2 tests of the voigt 10.5

https://vimeo.com/137833645
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5imNfHudYYQ

keep in mind it's heavier making it the less ideal choice for gimbal, and no AF options (all manual), but it looks great IMO for other uses. I use it for my wides unless on a gimbal.

Sounds like budget is a bit of an issue too so maye go used Oly 12mm or used/close-out Lumix 12-35.

If it's all about the artistry, voigt is king IMO, but for other uses, it can be limiting w/weight and no AF. Since it sounds like super wide isn't as important, and lightweight gimbal work is appealing, and it would be your one native M43 lens... the Lumix 12-35 first gen on close-out is *really* hard to beat:

https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-LU...1493194065&sr=8-1&keywords=lumix+12-35mm+f2.8

and those will be gone soon (with the $1000 mark II version). Mark II has some better weather sealing for extreme stuff but the mark I is firmware updateable to Dual IS 2, and has original weather sealing. Since you have GH5, having Dual IS on a good equiv. 24-70 zoom is pretty awesome and sort of a no brainer. You could use that for stable run'n'gun handheld work, gimbal work (and you can adjust between 12-18/20 on zoom without rebalancing!), and anything where you need a super lightweight kit. Plus, works great for photos. And has solid AF (even if continuous AF on GH5 is hit or miss, tap to AF on screen is awesome on gimbal when setting up a new shot).

Personally, I'd go that route in a heartbeat given your scenario...

 

[J__]

here's 2 tests of the voigt 10.5

https://vimeo.com/137833645
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5imNfHudYYQ

keep in mind it's heavier making it the less ideal choice for gimbal, and no AF options (all manual), but it looks great IMO for other uses. I use it for my wides unless on a gimbal.

Sounds like budget is a bit of an issue too so maye go used Oly 12mm or used/close-out Lumix 12-35.

If it's all about the artistry, voigt is king IMO, but for other uses, it can be limiting w/weight and no AF. Since it sounds like super wide isn't as important, and lightweight gimbal work is appealing, and it would be your one native M43 lens... the Lumix 12-35 first gen on close-out is *really* hard to beat:

https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-LU...1493194065&sr=8-1&keywords=lumix+12-35mm+f2.8

and those will be gone soon (with the $1000 mark II version). Mark II has some better weather sealing for extreme stuff but the mark I is firmware updateable to Dual IS 2, and has original weather sealing. Since you have GH5, having Dual IS on a good equiv. 24-70 zoom is pretty awesome and sort of a no brainer. You could use that for stable run'n'gun handheld work, gimbal work (and you can adjust between 12-18/20 on zoom without rebalancing!), and anything where you need a super lightweight kit. Plus, works great for photos. And has solid AF (even if continuous AF on GH5 is hit or miss, tap to AF on screen is awesome on gimbal when setting up a new shot).

Personally, I'd go that route in a heartbeat given your scenario...

thanks for the info!

I originally saw your youtube test of the voigt and thought it looked amazing for sharpness. Just some of the corners I wasn't a fan of the fringing or the fuzziness of the out of focus bokeh on the lights, makes it look soft rather than out of focus bokeh, if that makes sense?

Budget isn't really an issue if the lens is great and usable on other camera formats. Just don't want to spend $1000+ for a lens that's stuck on m4/3 format. That's the only reason why I've not gotten a whole set of Veydra cine lenses instead of mixing and matching like this.

I'll definitely check out the 12-35 mk 1, hopefully can find a store that stocks it to try out. Didn't plan on using AF much especially with the GH5's poor af performance, but like you said, on a gimbal AF gives so much more freedom since manual focusing is not possible on a smaller gimbal, if it's working properly. Only real alternative to manual focus on gimbal is use an EF lens + aputure dec lensregain, then can do decent rack focus on a small gimbal since the weight of the lensregain is really small. On a bigger gimbal like the dji ronin, you can attach remote follow focus gears where the zy crane just won't be able to handle.

just curious, what lens do you use for gimbal work?

thanks again!

 

[J__]

here's 2 tests of the voigt 10.5

https://vimeo.com/137833645
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5imNfHudYYQ

keep in mind it's heavier making it the less ideal choice for gimbal, and no AF options (all manual), but it looks great IMO for other uses. I use it for my wides unless on a gimbal.

Sounds like budget is a bit of an issue too so maye go used Oly 12mm or used/close-out Lumix 12-35.

If it's all about the artistry, voigt is king IMO, but for other uses, it can be limiting w/weight and no AF. Since it sounds like super wide isn't as important, and lightweight gimbal work is appealing, and it would be your one native M43 lens... the Lumix 12-35 first gen on close-out is *really* hard to beat:

https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-LU...1493194065&sr=8-1&keywords=lumix+12-35mm+f2.8

and those will be gone soon (with the $1000 mark II version). Mark II has some better weather sealing for extreme stuff but the mark I is firmware updateable to Dual IS 2, and has original weather sealing. Since you have GH5, having Dual IS on a good equiv. 24-70 zoom is pretty awesome and sort of a no brainer. You could use that for stable run'n'gun handheld work, gimbal work (and you can adjust between 12-18/20 on zoom without rebalancing!), and anything where you need a super lightweight kit. Plus, works great for photos. And has solid AF (even if continuous AF on GH5 is hit or miss, tap to AF on screen is awesome on gimbal when setting up a new shot).

Personally, I'd go that route in a heartbeat given your scenario...

thanks for the info!

I originally saw your youtube test of the voigt and thought it looked amazing for sharpness. Just some of the corners I wasn't a fan of the fringing or the fuzziness of the out of focus bokeh if that makes sense?

Budget isn't really an issue if the lens is great and usable on other camera formats. Just don't want to spend $1000+ for a lens that's stuck on m4/3 format. That's the only reason why I've not gotten a whole set of Veydra cine lenses instead of mixing and matching like this.

I'll definitely check out the 12-35 mk 1, hopefully can find a store that stocks it to try out. Didn't plan on using AF much especially with the GH5's poor af performance, but like you said, on a gimbal AF gives so much more freedom since manual focusing is not possible on a smaller gimbal. Only real alternative to manual focus on gimbal is use an EF lens + aputure dec lensregain, then can do decent rack focus on a small gimbal since the weight of the lensregain is really small.

thanks again!

 

[fboonzaier]

Depending on what you're looking and how much use it would get, there are worse things than investing in 1x M43 lens. The wide end of M43 is the area where I tend to find a native lens is the most needed, just because of the specialty crop factor.

A used Olympus 12mm can be had for pretty cheap. The manual focus Voigtlander 10.5 is great. And there's a new Pana Leica 8-18.

I realize these don't fit the speedbooster bill but given the extreme focal lengths might be worth making your one native m43 glass investment. Also one thing to think about is how handy M43 cameras are in your larger lineup for lightweight options and gimbal work, which tends to be on the wide end, so this could help keep that option open for you in the smallest, simplest, lightest form factor possible.

There's also the lumix 12-35; not quite as wide as the others listed but at 24mm equivalent still plenty wide, and a good m43 workhorse lens. The mark I version can currently be had for around $650 I believe and a firmware update gives it Dual IS support.

+1

I bought the Panny/Leica 12-60 just to try for use with the rack focus feature with the GH5...I have to say I was surprised at both the build and image quality and then of course lastly the weight...will probably buy the 8-18 to go with the 12-60 too...a bargain at $1050 for a lens that wide and versatile...Panasonic is really upping their lens game with these Panny/Leica series...

 

[c3hammer]

I have the Samyang 12mm f/2 I believe it is the same glass as the Rokinon Cine T2.2 It's a very impressive lens for the money. It's also way bigger and requires significantly more weights on my stabilizer than my panny 15mm. There was a video someone posted of a comparison between it and the Oly 12mm f/2. It was brighter colors and a bit wider angle, which I was surprised to see. I looked for it on youtube and vimeo and couldn't find it though.

If you need a sample of the Samyang/Rokinon 12mm f/2 let me know.

Cheers,
Pete

 

[filmguy123]

I use the 12-35 for gimbal work because it's light and I can change FOV from about 12-18/20 without a rebalance.

GH5 AF is not bad. GH5 continuous or tracking AF is what has people complaining. But keeping the lens in manual focus and just doing a tap AF to lock onto your target as you reset a new shot is much more convenient than trying to gingerly focus while not upsetting the gimbal motor. And it's fast/accurate.

Yes, the 10.5 voigt has soft corners. But so do many real cinema lenses - watch a YouTube video on cinematography analysis or Rogue One or La La Land, etc. They go out of their way to find old Panavision lenses and people love the look... slightly distorted barrel look to hard lines on edges, soft vignetting, etc. But it all depends on what you want! I just think the idea that glass is supposed to be perfect was purported by engineers reviewing lenses, not artists creating cinema. My test is: just look at the shots. Don't analyze. What do you like? What looks and FEELS good to the eye?

Anyway, obviously there's other factors there too. 12-35 is great and price is good. Voigt is spendy. The aforementioned Leica 12-60 is also great, as are any of the Leica options, especially if you want the really high end glass look that's more "perfect". No manual focus though so that is focus by wire for those, and I don't believe Dual IS works on non Lumix lenses.

My 2 cents is don't sweat investing a little into M43. It's your platform and your tool. I totally understand not wanting to invest in a whole lens set, but no use investing in a platform and then handicapping it to save a little coin. M43 isn't going anywhere (actually thanks to future advancements its going to have a very bright future), and good glass holds value, so you should be able to sell any quality lens down the road and regain some of that investment.

 

[J__]

I have the Samyang 12mm f/2 I believe it is the same glass as the Rokinon Cine T2.2 It's a very impressive lens for the money. It's also way bigger and requires significantly more weights on my stabilizer than my panny 15mm. There was a video someone posted of a comparison between it and the Oly 12mm f/2. It was brighter colors and a bit wider angle, which I was surprised to see. I looked for it on youtube and vimeo and couldn't find it though.

If you need a sample of the Samyang/Rokinon 12mm f/2 let me know.

Cheers,
Pete

Thanks for the info Pete! I've been looking at quite a few samples of the Cine t2.2 and love them!

I use the 12-35 for gimbal work because it's light and I can change FOV from about 12-18/20 without a rebalance.

GH5 AF is not bad. GH5 continuous or tracking AF is what has people complaining. But keeping the lens in manual focus and just doing a tap AF to lock onto your target as you reset a new shot is much more convenient than trying to gingerly focus while not upsetting the gimbal motor. And it's fast/accurate.

Yes, the 10.5 voigt has soft corners. But so do many real cinema lenses - watch a YouTube video on cinematography analysis or Rogue One or La La Land, etc. They go out of their way to find old Panavision lenses and people love the look... slightly distorted barrel look to hard lines on edges, soft vignetting, etc. But it all depends on what you want! I just think the idea that glass is supposed to be perfect was purported by engineers reviewing lenses, not artists creating cinema. My test is: just look at the shots. Don't analyze. What do you like? What looks and FEELS good to the eye?

Anyway, obviously there's other factors there too. 12-35 is great and price is good. Voigt is spendy. The aforementioned Leica 12-60 is also great, as are any of the Leica options, especially if you want the really high end glass look that's more "perfect". No manual focus though so that is focus by wire for those, and I don't believe Dual IS works on non Lumix lenses.

My 2 cents is don't sweat investing a little into M43. It's your platform and your tool. I totally understand not wanting to invest in a whole lens set, but no use investing in a platform and then handicapping it to save a little coin. M43 isn't going anywhere (actually thanks to future advancements its going to have a very bright future), and good glass holds value, so you should be able to sell any quality lens down the road and regain some of that investment.

Ah, I get what you mean for auto focus now. I thought you meant tracking AF, which works but not really reliable for professional use. I've just always manual focused my art 35 while on the gimbal. The motor handles it but wiggles a bit, not sure if that'll mess up the motors faster...

I actually love the slightly distorted look and vertical blurred bokeh of anamorphic lenses that I've been putting laser cut oval aperture chips between my sigma and speedbooster to give that imperfect anamorphic look while keeping the sigma sharpness in the middle focused area. It even gives me the breathing effect of anamorphic.

Going to the local shop here next week and see if anyone of them carry the 12-35 pany and let me try it out. Thought very very tempted to get the samyang/rokinon 12 t2.2 cine.

 

[thevirtualtaco]

I have the MB Ultra 0.64x adapter as well with my GH5 and opted for the 14mm Rokinon Cine DS as it is a full frame lens. The 12mm flavor is APS-C. You won't get a super-wide shot that borders on fisheye but, if you want ULTRA wide, you are on the wrong platform. So far, I love it.