GH4 GH5 vs BMPCC

Jim Simon said:
In a way we are - internal codec against internal codec. Granted the internal codecs aren't perfectly equal, more like a Granny Smith (GH4) against a Red Delicious (BMPCC), but I'd wager the battle of "internal codecs" applies to more people than not.
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If you only care about going the easy route yes but to only use the internal codec on the GH4 is not using the camera to it's full potential. Panasonic gave us options with the GH4 and if you choose to completely ignore one of the key benefits of using the GH4 that is your choice but in terms of describing what the sensor can do you really need to level the playing field and see how similar formats perform across both cameras with a similar post workflow. There are just too many variables at play there.

You can now add external HD recording to the GH4 for $295 so really there are no excuses anymore to consider it an unrealistic option.
 
Thomas Smet said:
You can now add external HD recording to the GH4 for $295 so really there are no excuses anymore to consider it an unrealistic option.
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What if you shoot a lot of run and gun? Doesn't one need to consider the style of production?
 
rsbush said:
What if you shoot a lot of run and gun? Doesn't one need to consider the style of production?
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Lets be realistic. Run-n-gun means different things to different people. One person's run-n-gun might be an Amira on an ez-rig while another's might be a 5DkIII in a cage. There are no hard fast rules. Use what works best for your situation. Same with raw vs ProRes or another compressed codec. As an example.... Much of the episodical work I have done in the past required a ProRes deliverable. While many of the higher end commercials with a more liberal budget used a raw workflow. When you get into the "only this is best, or only this camera rules mindset" your self imposed limitations can be more of a hindrance than a help.

Open your mind! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MRRMgeOZqs
 
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David W. Jones said:
Lets be realistic. Run-n-gun means different things to different people. One person's run-n-gun might be an Amira on an ez-rig while another's might be a 5DkIII in a cage. There are no hard fast rules. Use what works best for your situation. Same with raw vs ProRes or another compressed codec. As an example.... Much of the episodical work I have done in the past required a ProRes deliverable. While many of the higher end commercials with a more liberal budget used a raw workflow. When you get into the "only this is best, or only this camera rules mindset" your self imposed limitations can be more of a hindrance than a help.

Open your mind! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MRRMgeOZqs
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Thanks for agreeing with my point.
 
David W. Jones said:
Lets be realistic. Run-n-gun means different things to different people.
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I don't think it should, though. I think "run-n-gun" means the same thing as "event work", and is distinguished from "production work" by several factors - most notably a general lack of control over the setting, action, and lighting. You have to get the shot the first time, or you lose it forever. Whereas production work is generally characterized as having more or even full control over setting, action and lighting. You do get to retake a shot that didn't come out right.

So for run-n-gun work, adding an external recorder can be both a help, and a hindrance. Cameras that can offer the former without the latter (like the BMPCC) are...nice.
 
I shot an event in September of 1985 with an external recorder and my neck and shoulder still ache. But I guess they're not quite as heavy nowadays.
 
Jim Simon said:
I don't think it should, though. I think "run-n-gun" means the same thing as "event work", and is distinguished from "production work" by several factors - most notably a general lack of control over the setting, action, and lighting. You have to get the shot the first time, or you lose it forever. Whereas production work is generally characterized as having more or even full control over setting, action and lighting. You do get to retake a shot that didn't come out right.

So for run-n-gun work, adding an external recorder can be both a help, and a hindrance. Cameras that can offer the former without the latter (like the BMPCC) are...nice.
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2 different people, 2 different opinions on what run-n-gun is.

There is plenty of "event work" which I would not call run-n-gun. Stationary camera risers at a concert and locked down wedding shots are just two which come to mind.

To me, run-n-gun is highly mobile shooting. It doesn't matter whether you are shooting events, commercials, documentary, or whatever.
 
David W. Jones said:
2 different people, 2 different opinions on what run-n-gun is.

There is plenty of "event work" which I would not call run-n-gun. Stationary camera risers at a concert and locked down wedding shots are just two which come to mind.

To me, run-n-gun is highly mobile shooting. It doesn't matter whether you are shooting events, commercials, documentary, or whatever.
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I'd agree with that definition. Doesn't matter what you're shooting, just that you're mobile. I think run-n-gun also implies improvisation and that every move you make isn't planned out ahead of time.
 
Please.. BMPCC has raw and prores codec which is better (okay much better) than GH4 internal codec. However, I would argue that is the only advantage to BMPCC over GH4. No consideration to operational aspect? GH4's articulate LCD, amazing viewfinder, battery life? buttons and menu? Have you tried shooting with BMPCC in daylight? What about moire issue of BMPCC? Run and gun? You won't be running far unless you carry an external monitor and ton of extra batteries with BMPCC.
 
bumkicho said:
Please.. BMPCC has raw and prores codec which is better (okay much better) than GH4 internal codec. However, I would argue that is the only advantage to BMPCC over GH4. No consideration to operational aspect? GH4's articulate LCD, amazing viewfinder, battery life? buttons and menu? Have you tried shooting with BMPCC in daylight? What about moire issue of BMPCC? Run and gun? You won't be running far unless you carry an external monitor and ton of extra batteries with BMPCC.
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Not to mention that you are limited to 1920x1080 HD if that is important to you.

Both cameras are what they are. Low cost cameras which can deliver a good looking picture in the right situation.
 
David W. Jones said:
There is plenty of "event work" which I would not call run-n-gun.
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I don't disagree. But I would say the reverse is generally true, that all run-n-gun work is event work.

Run-n-gun implies haste and lack of control, which for the most part just does not apply to production work.

So while not all apples are Red Delicious, all Red Delicious are apples.
 
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Jim Simon said:
I don't think it should, though. I think "run-n-gun" means the same thing as "event work", and is distinguished from "production work" by several factors - most notably a general lack of control over the setting, action, and lighting. You have to get the shot the first time, or you lose it forever. Whereas production work is generally characterized as having more or even full control over setting, action and lighting. You do get to retake a shot that didn't come out right.

So for run-n-gun work, adding an external recorder can be both a help, and a hindrance. Cameras that can offer the former without the latter (like the BMPCC) are...nice.
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See I disagree with this. An external monitor doesn't have to be large and bulky. I used to shoot weddings in college with a giant shoulder mounted DSR500 DVCAM camera. A Gh4 and a small 5" recorder is puny compared to that. Just how compact do we need to get to feel comfortable shooting "run&gun"? We are already using cameras a fraction of the size they once were with exponentially better video quality. Are a few extra ounces really a deal breaker for that? Even if you use a BMPCC you will get better results using a dedicated monitor for focusing and exposing your shots. Yes getting it right the first time is a big deal and that is why I would absolutely use an external monitor to make sure what I am shooting is in focus and exposed properly with waveform monitors and scopes.

Besides there are some very compact options out there for recording. What about the Atomos Ninja Star which is very small and light and you could practical shove it in your pocket if you don't want to mount it to the camera. I use a Ninja Blade which is a 5" monitor and not cumbersome at all. While it may add a little extra weight I still find the rig lighter and more compact than any dedicated video camera I have ever used.

I tend to consider DSLR type cameras way too light and they need a bit of bulk to use them so they don't bounce around too much.
 
Jim Simon said:
I don't disagree. But I would say the reverse is generally true, that all run-n-gun work is event work.

Run-n-gun implies haste and lack of control, which for the most part just does not apply to production work.
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Well I will just have to disagree with you on that point based on my own experience. Having worked on what I would consider run-n-gun for various projects aside from events, including episodic TV, documentary, narrative and commercial production work. While I haven't seen it all, I have seen many interesting situations in my 40 years in the industry where a run-n-gun technique was used outside of event work.


All the best!

Dave
 
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