GH5 GH5 V-Log Noisy With High Bitrate and Low ISO

H

Hugh DiMauro

Well-known member
I've read complaints about Panasonic's GH5 V-Log being noisy in 8 bit color depth and high ISO however, I notice noise in 10 Bit, 422, 24p, ALL-I 200 mb/s at 400 ISO as well. Has anybody else noticed this? Is it normal? What may I do to fix this in camera instead of post denoising?

Thanks.
 
Hugh DiMauro said:
What may I do to fix this in camera instead of post denoising?
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Add light, or buy a GH5s or a camera with a bigger sensor. (Or use faster lenses and/or a SB...which is adding light.)

There is really nothing else you can do (maybe more internal NR if possible).

The GH5 does a lot of things right, but clean low-light is not one of them (especially with V-Log L).
 
Thanks, NorBro. You always answer my inquiries and I'm grateful to you. Just as an FYI, my test footage was made outside, bright sunlight, Panasonic Lumix lens at 5.6 using a neutral density filter. I saw the noise in an area of the frame that captured the darkened interior of an outdoor gazebo. So you are saying the GH5 is "known" for noisy dark areas when utilizing v-log? I'll accept that (since I also own a GH5s). I tested the following photo profiles: Natural, Cinelike D, Cinelike V, V-Log. As a regular user of Cinelike D, I actually like the Natural setting best and will probably use that from now on to get the cleanest image possible to maybe manipulate in post (should I decide to do so). Also, I will conduct further tests tomorrow using my Rokinon prime lenses which seem to give a more film like rendered image. Thank you, my friend.

Warmest Regards,
Hugh
 
Thank you, Soarprod. I might give that a try as well but I hesitate to manipulate the image in camera because once it's baked in, you stuck with it.
 
Maybe you're also a bit underexposed in some areas?

LOG - any kind - can definitely be noisy outside.

You usually grade/crush a lot of it out in post.
 
Hugh DiMauro said:
Thank you, Soarprod. I might give that a try as well but I hesitate to manipulate the image in camera because once it's baked in, you stuck with it.
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Sometimes it’s nice to not have to denoise in post. I usually shoot my EVA1 1 stop over because of this and it’s nice and clean. You don’t have a lot of highlight range with the GH5 compared to the EVA1 so in-camera NR helps. Sure NR will hurt detail but there is already too much in 4K anyways.
 
Hugh DiMauro said:
Panasonic Lumix lens at 5.6 using a neutral density filter. I saw the noise in an area of the frame that captured the darkened interior of an outdoor gazebo.
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Sounds like you're seeing noise in underexposed areas, as you described. I don't know your exact goals or needs but personally I would not switch away from Vlog L. Vlog is helping you capture maximum DR, not all of it will be clean as it gets to the limits. But that's ok. The other profiles may crush that out to pure black for you, so sure - less visible noise - but also less dynamic range. Vlog will stretch it to the limits, but you can also just dial it down to taste by crushing the blacks down a bit in post to clean up that noise. And still come out with more DR than the other profiles, options on how you want to handle the noisy areas (crush to black, run NR, etc.), and more grading flexibility.

Dark, underexposed areas that aren't crushed to pure black will pretty much always exhibit some noise.
 
NorBro, Soarprod and Filmguy: Thank you for your expertise. I have never worked with any type of high dynamic range settings before yesterday because the fear of ruining a shot due to my lack of experience using said log profile governed my decisions. That fear is born from never taking the time to experiment and gain the knowledge to do so. You gentlemen seem to know your way around the GH cameras better than me. I will run some tests (This Spring I must finish a web series and would love to shoot it in V-Log).

On an unrelated topic: I own a nice set of native micro four thirds, Rokinon DS Cine Primes at 1.5. I also see a lot of good reviews on the native micro four thirds Voigtlander 0.95 prime lenses (at three times the cost of the Rokinons). Would that faster lens be worth the price of being able to shoot at lower ISOs? Any personal experience with those particular lenses?
 
I have a dozen or so native m43 lenses including the full voigtlander set. The voigts are by far my favorite, they have a special character to them. They are glowy and soft at .95 and unless you are after that effect, I’d say they start closer to 1.2 or even 1.4 depending on your preference. The really reason to get a voigt is character and the superb manual focus rings.
 
Hugh DiMauro said:
NorBro, Soarprod and Filmguy: Thank you for your expertise. I have never worked with any type of high dynamic range settings before yesterday because the fear of ruining a shot due to my lack of experience using said log profile governed my decisions. That fear is born from never taking the time to experiment and gain the knowledge to do so. You gentlemen seem to know your way around the GH cameras better than me. I will run some tests (This Spring I must finish a web series and would love to shoot it in V-Log).

On an unrelated topic: I own a nice set of native micro four thirds, Rokinon DS Cine Primes at 1.5. I also see a lot of good reviews on the native micro four thirds Voigtlander 0.95 prime lenses (at three times the cost of the Rokinons). Would that faster lens be worth the price of being able to shoot at lower ISOs? Any personal experience with those particular lenses?
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I'm a big fan of speed boosted EF lenses with the metabones adapters. Especially the sigma 18-35
 
The Voigtlanders are phenomenal! But make sure to understand that you will most likely not be able to use them until 1.2/1.4 like filmguy mentioned. Even 1.8-ish for some.
 
soarprod said:
I'm a big fan of speed boosted EF lenses with the metabones adapters. Especially the sigma 18-35
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Big fan of this as well. It’s a limited range lens but I find I personally shoot 80% of my content on a wide (24mm), mid (35mm), and standard (50mm), and the sigma speedboosted basically becomes those primes 3-in-1. At f/1.2. I think the focus works well. It’s bigger and heavier than a voigtlander prime attached but it’s a killer setup.

IQ wise I find the sigma gives me a clean, modern, sharp look. The voigts give me more of a subtle vintage/dreamy/watercolored look (any of those words are too strong, it still looks clean and modern - but the image rendition is less clinical and veers towards more interpretative). So it depends on the look you want, too.

The sigma setup for me is a god send for indoor, live event docu type shoots. 3 focal lengths, good manual focus, beautiful lowlight. Tack sharp at f/1.2 speedboosted.
 
OP I think your problem might possibly be that you are shooting in bright sun and you might be using too many stops of ND and/or have a not good variable ND filter. If so what you may be seeing is IR pollution causing ultraviolet noise.
 
filmguy123 said:
I have a dozen or so native m43 lenses including the full voigtlander set. The voigts are by far my favorite, they have a special character to them. They are glowy and soft at .95 and unless you are after that effect, I’d say they start closer to 1.2 or even 1.4 depending on your preference. The really reason to get a voigt is character and the superb manual focus rings.
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Thank you, Filmguy. I guess the time has come for me to start using V-Log and learning color grading.
 
Hugh DiMauro said:
Thank you, Filmguy. I guess the time has come for me to start using V-Log and learning color grading.
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I recommend it! FWIW, Color Grading can be infintely complex and a lifelong, full time pursuit. Also, it can be much easier than you think thanks to tools and resources so readily available today.

A good place to start: Leeming LUTs, $25 or so, https://www.leeminglutpro.com/

Lumetri color sliders for blacks, whites, curves, etc. A few tutorials on those controls.

That'll get you started well. I like to use an adjustment layer with Lumetri color and a LUT applied to all my clips. Or, copy/paste the Lumetri Effect with the LUT applied batched onto everything. And then I use a second lumetri effect to do basic adjustments.

Want to get more advanced, Red Giant Colorista IV plugin is great. You can get it usually about 50% off every December.

You don't need to go full board Davinci Resolve and every complicated facet of color grading to get better results than a stock profile. You can even cheat secondaries using multiple layers of Lumetri effect with masks, just draw a circle mask on a face, feather 100-150, then copy/paste it and invert that effect to control everything "not face" for example. Stack, add, layer mask as needed.

Just shoot vlog in 10-bit always.

Good luck... it's not so bad. If that's all too much, a LUT on adjustment layer is essentially back to ground zero and often just as good to export as if you shot CineV to start with, but with more DR!
 
To use log you need to consider ...

exposure
the 'toe' in the curve using post

Simply you need to set up a controlled scene with some DR and shoot it at many settings (different iris)
You then need to take all of these shots into post and pull the curves to make the best image from each shot.

95% of noise complainants are underexposing log footage.
 
Hopefully LOG shooting will go away in close future generations. I do not like shooting with it and would rather have the camera maker get a profile right or offer RAW.

If you are going to do anything with color grading make sure you have a good calibrated monitor in the mix. Otherwise you are making decisions based upon untruths.
 
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