GH4 GH5 Audio Unit VS a Universal option (IE Zoom H4N Pro)

[wbrock001]

Question on quality:

GH4 internal audio does a pretty decent job. How much better would the quality of routing through an external recorder like Zoom or other be in comparison to simply recording direct into camera via an impedance transforming XLR to 3/8 Mic? Is the Zoom H5 (or other) pre-amp/quality benefits worth the hassle?

I recently invested in DPA lavs and Zaxcom Maxx recorder for my audio kit and I just have to say its WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY better. But its something you'll not notice or worry about until you try it. My colleague that I helped on a shoot, I used my new kit and he calls me up saying wow man, I didn't have to touch the audio, it sounded amazing. The noise floor is so low its almost like iZotope RX has been applied (without any artifacts). The vocals kind of take on a 3 dimensional quality. But its a lot of money and I had just prioritized it since cameras and such are always coming and going, there really isn't much that'll get dramatically better in the audio kit when you get to that level, so I saw it as a much better investment to increase my quality. Next will be a new camera or two...

In regards to your specific question the zoom, yes it will sound better since zoom does have better preamps and a/d conversion. But can you use the other, yes, will you notice its worse...probably not, unless you recorded the same thing at the same time with a higher quality mic and recorder rig. And no one listening on youtube is going to notice either as long as the vocals are intelligible without too much bg noise.

A great way to hear the difference, is hook up your mics to your zoom, then output the zoom to the camera, then listen to the audio recorded on the zoom and then the audio on the camera...you should hear a quality difference just in the pres and a/d.

By the way, I'm assuming having proper mic placement to get the best audio from the subject.

 

[wbrock001]

It seems the audio guys on the sub forum are saying it's not about an external recorder, it's about an external Pre-Amp. External recorder from what I am gathering is just about higher bitrate recording (24-bit 96khz) vs 16-bit 48khz internal GH4. The pre-amps in a Zoom H5 or Tascam are a little better for sure, but not light years. It seems to reason that this will also be the case on the external GH5 audio unit - good pass through device, a little improvement in pre-amps, convenience.

But external recorders if you're after quality are a bit like using an external 4:2:2 ProRes recorder on an HVX200. You need a better image sensor, not a better way to capture a mediorce image. Enter the Pre-Amp.

It seems with a good pre-amp, you could just skip the external recorder all together. Yes, the ultimate solution seems to be Pre-Amp -> External Recorder -> GH4, but going PreAmp -> GH4 if you don't need the options afforded by the external recorder are a bit like upgrading a camera sensor massively and sticking with a good enough codec. Adding an external recorder is like a tiny sensor upgrade and a massively better codec.

Both is ultimate, but if you had to choose one - depending on your needs - it seems a good pre-amp is what I am after...

(I am articulating back what I have learned, so if this is inaccurate, please correct me!!! And if you are browsing this thread later, don't take me as an expert on this, I am only a student ).

I'll take a stab at this from experience 96khz doesn't sound any better than 48khz, the biggest reason to use higher rates is similar to higher video frame rates when you want slow motion. A foley recordist will get the highest spatial resolution so they can slow the sound down and do all sorts of effects to the high res audio to get the desired outcome. But for day to day use or video production the 96khz is much less important than the word length of 16-bit vs 24-bit. Think of it like 8-bit color vs. 10-bit color. But with audio you're dealing with the quality of the pre-amp (how clean is it, does it add unique pleasing harmonics (warmth) or displeasing harmonics (harshness)), and the quality of the analog to digital converter (ADC) in the camera (noise floor dynamic range - does it add hiss). We assume an external standalone recorder should have better pres and adc than a camera...but that's not always the case. You have to let your ears do the work and if you have access to someone with some great audio gear try some experiments to hear the difference. (try recording the same thing with the same mics at the same location using the different recorders)

Another option is to get something like a sound devices mixpre, then use that as the front to a zoom or to your camera input...but I still think the zoom doesn't let you bypass their pre nor does the camera when doing line level input, but it should still sound cleaner than the zoom or camera alone.

 

[wbrock001]

When I get the gh5, I will definitely get the audio unit. I run the audio through my external mixer/recorder then will output from that to the gh5. Then I can sync it up super easily later on, and in a pinch I could just use the gh5 audio. Having the pro XLR inputs is sooo much more convenient then messing with adapters. Also most mixers/recorders will output line level so that would be problematic with adapters if the camera doesn't support line level, or the mixer cannot output at different levels.