GH4 GH4 Random Newbie Questions...

[The Irish TRex]

Coming from the world of smaller sensor cameras, I have a few questions now that one of our cameras is the new GH4 for event coverage.

1) Is there any sort of Flash Band Compensation software out there (or built in) that can handle some of the CMOS flash "banding" that occurs when other cameras flash? Cameras like the HPX250 and PX270 have this FBC feature built in which is awesome.

2) If a lens needs to be changed during a filming of an event, do we have to stop recording and turn off the camera to do it? I've read several articles about dust, etc. but most comments seem to say you can do it.
2a) If we do remove the lens while the camera is on and recording, are their any other tips besides "just do it quickly"?

3) Is there anyway to simulate the PUSH AF button on some pro video cameras where if you are in MF mode, and want to quickly use AF to readjust, you can WHILE FILMING? Or do I just have to switch the switch from MF to AFC or AFS/AFF and then back again? I know prior to filming I can tap the little "AF" box while in MF mode and it adjusts but that seems to go away during filming.

4) If I'm walking with people shooting them as I'm walking backwards, is the best and most accurate way to do this and maintain focus:
a) Lock focus prior to shooting and move into MF mode and try to keep the same distance
b) Put in AFC mode and FACE/EYE Detection mode and go
c) Put in AFS/AFF mode and FACE/EYE Detection mode and go
d) Put in either AFC or AFS/AFF and Tracking AF Mode and go
e) None of the above...specify

5) For more focused audio (aside from using lav mics)...from what I've read, to get the best audio from an attached mic... the worst is the on-board mic, better is an attached shotgun mic, even better is a shotgun mic going into a device with better pre-amps like a Juicedlink, Tascam, etc. device. Is this all true?

6) For use with wireless mics (we have 2 Sennheiser G3 body pack lav mics), is the audio improved by going into a better pre-amp device like mentioned above or does it not matter and it can go straight into the camera via the 3.5mm jack with no real difference in quality?

7) I've shot AVCHD for years. Since we do long events, it's great to have long recording times with AVCHD and the quality of that codec is pretty nice. Now with more options, I'm debating shooting MOV 1080p60 at 50Mbps vs the AVCHD 1080p60 at 28Mbps. I know it's a higher bit rate, but is there any video out there that shows any clear difference/advantage to going to MOV mode? Or should I just stick with AVCHD and enjoy twice the recording time?

I may have more questions, but this is a good start.

Thanks!

 

[Brandon Freeman]

Just a quick answer to 7, I'm not sure of the quality difference, but the GH4 will record indefinitely in .MOV mode, it will just split the clips. I've tested this (in both 1080p and 4K at 24.00Hz), and the clips seamlessly connect together on the timeline, so even though they are split, there is no jump in frame or sound when you piece it together. My reason for shooting in .MOV mode is to avoid having to deal with the AVCHD folder structure - it's very nice to just have regular old video files that any system can preview without a lot of hassle.

 

[The Irish TRex]

Just a quick answer to 7, I'm not sure of the quality difference, but the GH4 will record indefinitely in .MOV mode, it will just split the clips. I've tested this (in both 1080p and 4K at 24.00Hz), and the clips seamlessly connect together on the timeline, so even though they are split, there is no jump in frame or sound when you piece it together. My reason for shooting in .MOV mode is to avoid having to deal with the AVCHD folder structure - it's very nice to just have regular old video files that any system can preview without a lot of hassle.

Thanks for your response. I'm used to AVCHD folder structure, but I'd be glad to abandon it for sure. AVCHD can record indefinitely too but yeah, the folder structure isn't optimal. Granted I use Premiere and it handles all that easily. I wouldn't make it the deciding factor in moving to MOV vs. AVCHD. I was curious if anyone has visual proof that it's worth the switch. AVCHD is pretty efficient. But maybe the extra bit rate will help with more complex and detailed shots, I don't know. And maybe it's more/less taxing on my computer CPU/GPU when editing, I don't know. I just know MOV will be taking up twice the space on my cards, that's all.

Thanks again for the feedback. Looking forward to hearing others on #1 - #7

 

[losmignones]

#3 yes the gh4 has that function. u can push on the lcd screen OR program a Fn button to quickly AF in manual mode ... such a great feature that I used all the time on pro broadcast cams when in a run and gun situations.

 

[scotteh]

I've been using AVCHD on pro-sumer cameras and I have to say I hate it. It's not editing friendly. Everything has to be transcoded. Ideally I would love to use a external recorder and record in prores but I haven't invested in one yet.

Some good questions though. Interested to see the answers.

 

[Benjobe]

1) Is there any sort of Flash Band Compensation software out there (or built in) that can handle some of the CMOS flash "banding" that occurs when other cameras flash? Cameras like the HPX250 and PX270 have this FBC feature built in which is awesome.

Not that I know of. I didn't know about the HPX250 and PX270 having that feature. That's pretty cool.

2) If a lens needs to be changed during a filming of an event, do we have to stop recording and turn off the camera to do it? I've read several articles about dust, etc. but most comments seem to say you can do it.

Yes, you can change lenses while the camera continues to record, but why would you want to? For sync sound? Also, if you're using a Lumix lens or other focus-by-wire lens then you may not be able to focus the new lens.

2a) If we do remove the lens while the camera is on and recording, are their any other tips besides "just do it quickly"?

Don't do it at the beach on a windy day or in the pouring rain. Basically, protect the sensor at all costs.

3) Is there anyway to simulate the PUSH AF button on some pro video cameras where if you are in MF mode, and want to quickly use AF to readjust, you can WHILE FILMING? Or do I just have to switch the switch from MF to AFC or AFS/AFF and then back again? I know prior to filming I can tap the little "AF" box while in MF mode and it adjusts but that seems to go away during filming.

While in AFS mode I like to tap the LCD screen on the point of the frame that needs focusing and the camera does the rest. It's easy to get rack focusing shots this way.

4) If I'm walking with people shooting them as I'm walking backwards, is the best and most accurate way to do this and maintain focus:
a) Lock focus prior to shooting and move into MF mode and try to keep the same distance
b) Put in AFC mode and FACE/EYE Detection mode and go
c) Put in AFS/AFF mode and FACE/EYE Detection mode and go
d) Put in either AFC or AFS/AFF and Tracking AF Mode and go
e) None of the above...specify

I would use method A since I don't fully trust the AFC mode.

5) For more focused audio (aside from using lav mics)...from what I've read, to get the best audio from an attached mic... the worst is the on-board mic, better is an attached shotgun mic, even better is a shotgun mic going into a device with better pre-amps like a Juicedlink, Tascam, etc. device. Is this all true?

All true. The Rode Videomic Pro is a great addition to any DSLR video camera. I use it all the time for run & gun work. For sit down interviews I use a Sound Devices MixPre to phantom power a shotgun mic. I connect a -35dB L Pad Attenuator cable to the TAPE OUT (line level) of the MixPre and feed the other end into my GH3 (now my GH4). I'm able to get very clean gain from the MixPre and it's got excellent limiters as well.

6) For use with wireless mics (we have 2 Sennheiser G3 body pack lav mics), is the audio improved by going into a better pre-amp device like mentioned above or does it not matter and it can go straight into the camera via the 3.5mm jack with no real difference in quality?

I use the Sony UWP-V6 wireless lav system and I've had great results with just feeding receiver's signal directly into my DSLR. I keep the transmitter's attenuation at -9dB for most speakers, -12dB for loud talkers.

7) I've shot AVCHD for years. Since we do long events, it's great to have long recording times with AVCHD and the quality of that codec is pretty nice. Now with more options, I'm debating shooting MOV 1080p60 at 50Mbps vs the AVCHD 1080p60 at 28Mbps. I know it's a higher bit rate, but is there any video out there that shows any clear difference/advantage to going to MOV mode? Or should I just stick with AVCHD and enjoy twice the recording time?

I prefer working with the higher bitrate MOV or MP4 files because they can handle post-processing (color grading, green screen, filters, resizing, etc.) better than the AVCHD files. Plus, as someone else already mentioned, I like the convenience of having individual video files. I never liked the AVCHD file structure.

I may have more questions, but this is a good start.

Bring em on. Glad to help.

Thanks![/QUOTE]

 

[The Irish TRex]

#3 yes the gh4 has that function. u can push on the lcd screen OR program a Fn button to quickly AF in manual mode ... such a great feature that I used all the time on pro broadcast cams when in a run and gun situations.

Are you sure? While it's recording you can do this? I can't seem to make it happen. Pre-record, no problem. While it's recording pushing the LCD does nothing in MF mode. Feel free to walk me through your setup if it does indeed work for you while recording in MF mode.

 

[The Irish TRex]

Benjobe---

Thanks for your response. Yes, the Flash Band Compensation on those Panasonic cameras is awesome and I always wonder why it's not on more cameras. Turn the button on and instantly all that banding with flashes is gone. Shutter has to be off though. Maybe it's a higher end thing since those cameras are 3-4 times the price. I don't know.

Regarding changing the lenses while recording, I just wanted to know just in case that comes up because during events I can see us starting with one lens and then wanting to switch to another during the recording. Our lenses will basically all be Panasonic (12-35, 35-100, 14-140, 7-14) so I'd love to know more about reasons it's good, bad, or not a big deal. Again, just in case. I can always stop and sync another clip in post, but I figured why not ask.

You use AFS mode, not AFC. Why?

I was looking at the Rode Videomic Pro that you mentioned. I see guys with that all the time. I have a Rode NTG-2 mic with XLR so I figured I'd just use that. When you use your Sony wireless lavs right into your DSLR, are you turning down the gain on your camera's audio? Sounds like when using a preamp like Tascam or Juicedlink, they recommend dropping the on camera audio to just above off...so, I don't know is that around -12db on the GH4? Just trying to get that straight.

Interesting thought about the MOV files ability to handle post-processing better. We do most of our "look" in camera, but still that might come in handy. Plus isn't the audio better on MOV files? Hmm. Interesting. Still would love to see the difference/advantage first hand in some video. Maybe I'll find one. Or do a test myself. Isn't the MOV better than the MP4 option though?

Sorry my questions are all over with no quotes. I never understood in all these years how to do individual quotes like you did in your response. I know how to quote once. And then I know there's the multi quote button, but after that, no idea. Thanks again Benjamin.

 

[Phil_D]

Hi

I've been using AVCHD on pro-sumer cameras and I have to say I hate it. It's not editing friendly. Everything has to be transcoded. Ideally I would love to use a external recorder and record in prores but I haven't invested in one yet.

Some good questions though. Interested to see the answers.

AVCHD, MOV and MP4 on the GH4 are all the same fundamentally, and that is H264/AVC. AVCHD differs from the other two in that it specifies an application format as well as maximum picture resolution and types of audio it can contain, and this application format provides the possibility to have menus and navigation, plus some none destructive editing, and immediate playback on any device that supports AVCHD. This is why we see the folder structure and lots of other files. AVCHD was introduced a while ago and to ensure it worked with hardware at the time the bit-rate is limited to 24Mbps then later 28Mbps for Progressive.

In order for any manufacturer to support higher bit-rates or resolutions that are now easily possible they can't do that as AVCHD as it breaks the rules of the trademarked format, which is why the higher bit-rate recordings only come about when selecting MOV or MP4. MOV or MP4 are just a container file for the video and they have no restrictions in terms of what audio they can contain or maximum bit-rates. The negative of course is you have no guarantee any MOV or MP4 file will play on any bit of equipment, but generally this isn't a problem for most PCs, and after editing they will be exported as more play friend formats, for example at lower bit-rates.

If you need to transcode AVCHD then you will also need to do the same with the MOV or MP4 files as the video they contain is the same, and it sounds like your editor/computer is having a problem with editing Long GOP formats smoothly.

Regards

Phil

 

[scotteh]

If you need to transcode AVCHD then you will also need to do the same with the MOV or MP4 files as the video they contain is the same, and it sounds like your editor/computer is having a problem with editing Long GOP formats smoothly.

I'll probably get some heat for saying this but with FCP X it transcoded those nasty .mts files into prores I believe. I think premiere does something similar. I know when I loaded a .mts it was stuck on "transforming <file name>" for quite a while.

 

[losmignones]

Are you sure? While it's recording you can do this? I can't seem to make it happen. Pre-record, no problem. While it's recording pushing the LCD does nothing in MF mode. Feel free to walk me through your setup if it does indeed work for you while recording in MF mode.

you are right can't do it while recording. if that's what I need I shoot in AFS, in this mode it will refocus when pressing shutter half way (while recording) and I always have continuous focus set to off but you can't manual focus . Still AFS/ with continuous focus set to off has worked great for me in run and gun on gh3.

 

[The Irish TRex]

you are right can't do it while recording. if that's what I need I shoot in AFS, in this mode it will refocus when pressing shutter half way (while recording) and I always have continuous focus set to off but you can't manual focus . Still AFS/ with continuous focus set to off has worked great for me in run and gun on gh3.

Bummer. Curious why you choose AFS over AFC? And also, why do you turn continuous focus off? I've read other videographers turn that off too, but I wonder what advantages you get having it off vs. on.

Thx!

(shot a wedding today with our normal cameras plus the GH4 in one hand. I'd say I shot about 20% of the wedding day coverage with the GH4, up from like 1% the week before. Went really well. I just need to get more lenses than just my 12-35 f/2.8. Maybe a 35-100 f/2.8 and a 14-140 as well. I played with Tracking Mode vs. Face/Eye Detection Mode and, well, my results were inconclusive so far. This post is very helpful for me and I appreciate any feedback anyone has on my original questions.)

 

[valdez]

yes, I think the AVCHD files are nicely compressed and efficient but in every other way they are a serious PITA. When the Gh3 came out I pounced on it just for the chance to get away from them. Back when I was on FCP7 it was a nightmare of huge files transcoding everything to prores first and it actually is a big reason I switched to Premiere (to handle them natively).

But even then for long documentary stuff (syncing long multi cam shots, labeling tons of clips) it was just messy and dangerous; i.e. if you have to deal with anyone in your workflow that isn't a veteran to this work they're lost immediately and it's confusing retaining the entire file structure. Re-linking files is also near impossible (with lots of footage and repeated clip names). I'm a mac person, though, so maybe it's easier on PC's? I don't know but I still run screaming from AVCHD. The mov containers are so much more friendly to editors and multiple programs.
Anyway, obviously my vote is to stick with MOV, but if you really like the better compression or bitrates offered by AVCHD than go with that. I'd say maybe that long form projects or event stuff isn't suited well for it though, even if maybe smaller stuff is. (post-wise)

 

[Thomas Smet]

I've been using AVCHD on pro-sumer cameras and I have to say I hate it. It's not editing friendly. Everything has to be transcoded. Ideally I would love to use a external recorder and record in prores but I haven't invested in one yet.

Some good questions though. Interested to see the answers.

Depends on the system. On my 2011 17" MBP I can edit native AVCHD in both Premiere CC and FCPX very easily. I do transcode in FCPX just because it skims the clips just a tiny bit better but native editing runs like butter for me.

 

[Thomas Smet]

Not that I know of. I didn't know about the HPX250 and PX270 having that feature. That's pretty cool.



Yes, you can change lenses while the camera continues to record, but why would you want to? For sync sound? Also, if you're using a Lumix lens or other focus-by-wire lens then you may not be able to focus the new lens.



Don't do it at the beach on a windy day or in the pouring rain. Basically, protect the sensor at all costs.



While in AFS mode I like to tap the LCD screen on the point of the frame that needs focusing and the camera does the rest. It's easy to get rack focusing shots this way.



I would use method A since I don't fully trust the AFC mode.



All true. The Rode Videomic Pro is a great addition to any DSLR video camera. I use it all the time for run & gun work. For sit down interviews I use a Sound Devices MixPre to phantom power a shotgun mic. I connect a -35dB L Pad Attenuator cable to the TAPE OUT (line level) of the MixPre and feed the other end into my GH3 (now my GH4). I'm able to get very clean gain from the MixPre and it's got excellent limiters as well.



I use the Sony UWP-V6 wireless lav system and I've had great results with just feeding receiver's signal directly into my DSLR. I keep the transmitter's attenuation at -9dB for most speakers, -12dB for loud talkers.



I prefer working with the higher bitrate MOV or MP4 files because they can handle post-processing (color grading, green screen, filters, resizing, etc.) better than the AVCHD files. Plus, as someone else already mentioned, I like the convenience of having individual video files. I never liked the AVCHD file structure.



Bring em on. Glad to help.

Thanks!

[/QUOTE]

Are you 100% sure about the lens removal? On the GH1 and GH2 the camera would stop recording if I removed the lens. With adapted lenses I could remove the lens itself from the adapter if the adapter stayed connected to the camera but this was very difficult to do. Native m43 lenses however caused the cameras to stop recording once the connection with the body was broken. I have not tried this on my GH3 since I gave up on ever being able to do it but I was not aware that this has changed.

 

[TheDingo]

Most AVCHD issues are Mac Final Cut issues. Use Premiere for Mac or any Windows NLE and AVCHD issues pretty much go away.

I edit with Sony Vegas Pro under Windows and always use the Vegas import-utility to stitch all of the AVCHD 4GB file segments back into large single video files for editing.

 

[TheDingo]

While I know you can change electronic lenses with the camera on, I consider this practice to be looking for trouble, as these are electrical devices that can malfunction or short-out if something goes wrong. Just like I always format my SD cards before every shoot, I always turn off my camera when changing a lens.

 

[TheDingo]

A better preamp can improve the audio quality of an external mic, but with wireless audio packs like the Sennheiser G3 system their own audio circuitry is the limiting factor, so you won't gain any benefit from using high quality preamps before connecting to the camera. Just make sure the Sennheiser receiver unit and the GH4 camera audio levels are set correctly.

I haven't tried this with a GH4, but I imagine that setting the GH4 to -12 dB and setting the Sennheiser receiver AF Out to -30 dB would be a good place to start.

 

[Bruce Foreman]

Bummer. Curious why you choose AFS over AFC? And also, why do you turn continuous focus off? I've read other videographers turn that off too, but I wonder what advantages you get having it off vs. on.

Thx!

Because AFC is not reliable. It's getting better all the time but on the GH3 it is still not something I can count on. You might try this: Program the AEL/AFL button to SAF and lock focus. Have SAF + MANUAL ASSIST set to ON. Then set the MF ASSIST to whatever mode causes it to work with SAF (there are 4 choices and I don't have a GH3 in front of me right now).

The way this works is you can do SAF with a half press on the shutter button as usual. But if you press the AEL/AFL button it will do one SAF actuation then lock focus there and switch to manual. It stays in manual focus mode UNTIL you press the AEL/AFL button again. Until you do this each time you grab the focus ring you are in MF mode, if not recording the magnified assist will "kick in", a light half press on the shutter restores normal view. If you need to do a touchscreen AF, first press the AEL/AFL button to "clear" the focus mode back to normal SAF.

"Back button" autofocus this way is neat once you are used to it. Gives me the best of both auto and manual focus with one button. Now I do use this on the GX1, GH3, and GX7 in still photo work with the dial on top set to M for Manual. I haveen't had a chance to try it out with motion picture...Project for tomorrow, maybe.

 

[Fran Guidry]

Are you 100% sure about the lens removal? On the GH1 and GH2 the camera would stop recording if I removed the lens. With adapted lenses I could remove the lens itself from the adapter if the adapter stayed connected to the camera but this was very difficult to do. Native m43 lenses however caused the cameras to stop recording once the connection with the body was broken. I have not tried this on my GH3 since I gave up on ever being able to do it but I was not aware that this has changed.[/QUOTE]

Did you have "shoot without lens" turned on?

Fran