GH2 official discussion thread

Jesse Brauning said:
World standard?
That's the most subjective crap I've ever heard.
It may be the standard where you live. Don't call it the world standard.
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IT is the freq. of the Power Grid that is the key there
in EU, Russia, China, India Brazil it´s ans more all 50 Hz
USA, Polynesia and Japan has a Power Grid that have 60 Hz
The TV set and all other grid powerd thing have this as a easy sync base to use.

AND TH BIG TING all Light Tubes blicks with that Hz
That why this 24P thing is so disturbing
You get moving banding of light in clip, taking shot at the night outside in the street with wrong setting
to the power grid Hz.
Thats the point

BTW
To me 50 Hz comes close to world standatd in used by population
but that is an other subject
Yours
 
Matthew P said:
Yes they do. Almost all high quality material is 25p in PAL land (PAL land is most of the world), like dramas, documentaries, films, etc. Things would be much more simple, actually, if the world just used PAL....

25p = film motion, goes perfectly into 50i without juddery motion on any PAL device (even ancient ones).
50i = smooth video motion, can easily be converted to 25p without juddery motion if required

compare that to the rather complicated NTSC standard...

24p = film motion, only smooth at cinemas or on high end playback devices that detect and display correctly, can't go evenly into any television standard
30p = smooth video look
60i = smooth video look, can only be converted to 30p and can't display any film framerates smoothly

And NTSC has fractional framerates to boot!


:) That's my little INCORRECT rant about NTSC vs PAL.
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There fixed it for you.

First if you convert 1080i to 25 FPS you will throw out a lot of resolution if not half of it.
Second 30p is not a smooth video look. 60p is smooth. Smoother than 50p also.

Lastly, who wants to convert 1080i to film frame rates? If you want the film look then record in a film frame rate. Then if you need to convert it to 1080i for broadcast a simple telecine will transport it in a 1080i container losslessly.

The only thing wrong here is that the film industry something less than 50p as the standard. If they had used 50 and 60 FPS in the first place we wouldn't have half the issues we have today.
 
mpgxsvcd said:
There fixed it for you.

First if you convert 1080i to 25 FPS you will throw out a lot of resolution if not half of it.
Second 30p is not a smooth video look. 60p is smooth. Smoother than 50p also.

Lastly, who wants to convert 1080i to film frame rates? If you want the film look then record in a film frame rate. Then if you need to convert it to 1080i for broadcast a simple telecine will transport it in a 1080i container losslessly.

The only thing wrong here is that the film industry something less than 50p as the standard. If they had used 50 and 60 FPS in the first place we wouldn't have half the issues we have today.
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Sort of disagree...the reason we use 24p as a standard isn't just for the "film look" it's because it most closely mimics the look of the human eye.

Anyway, just shoot 1/50th in PAL countries.

Most of my work goes to the web or gets screened for audiences so I couldn't care less what the TV standards are.
 
Ben_B said:
Sort of disagree...the reason we use 24p as a standard isn't just for the "film look" it's because it most closely mimics the look of the human eye.
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Can you explain what this means?
Since real motion is occuring around us at a near infinitely-smooth rate, if we were to "see in 24fps," then the same would apply to when we were watching high fps filming. What I mean is that if smooth motion in life looked like 24fps, then smooth motion (60fps) in video would like like 24fps. And this isn't the case.

I think what is actually going on is that we are conditioned by so many movies that 24fps looks "real." Remove this conditioning and it would look more fake than any higher progressive rate. Bring up a baby on nothing but 60p, they would probably want everything they see to be that 'film look' of 60p.

24p was originally chosen, of course, because it was the LOWEST possible framerate that still looked like smooth motion, not because it was the BEST. It was to save film!
 
I'll admit to becoming annoyingly pedantic here and I'll shut up after this, but I still think that 25P is far from being a "world standard". It's not standard for film-making (that's 24P). It's not standard for broadcast anywhere (that's 50P or 50i or 60i or 60P). And it's not standard for DVD mpeg2 (always interlaced) or for BluRay. Beyond the internet, the only distribution methods I can think of where 25P may have been standard are VCD and perhaps HD-DVD (before that format died).

Incidentally, here's an interesting interview on "why 24p"? http://www.macvideo.tv/camera-technology/interviews/index.cfm?articleId=3213230
 
GrahamH said:
I'll admit to becoming annoyingly pedantic here and I'll shut up after this, but I still think that 25P is far from being a "world standard". It's not standard for film-making (that's 24P). It's not standard for broadcast anywhere (that's 50P or 50i or 60i or 60P). And it's not standard for DVD mpeg2 (always interlaced) or for BluRay. Beyond the internet, the only distribution methods I can think of where 25P may have been standard are VCD and perhaps HD-DVD (before that format died).

Incidentally, here's an interesting interview on "why 24p"? http://www.macvideo.tv/camera-technology/interviews/index.cfm?articleId=3213230
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I think you're thinking about distribution. The most common way of distributing 25p is inside 50i (ie broadcast). As an acquisition format, 25p is used for just about everything of quality in PAL countries. So yes, one could say that it's a 'world standard', just as 24p is (if not more so because more countries use PAL).
 
dasbin said:
24p was originally chosen, of course, because it was the LOWEST possible framerate that still looked like smooth motion, not because it was the BEST. It was to save film!
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FINALLY! Someone who talks some sense! That is exactly why 24p is what it is...people need to check into film history.

25p is a highly used standard in Euro/Hk and just as viable if not more as 24p.
(50i is 25p in wrapper...50p still gets finally gets dropped to 25p for compatibilty as its currently really only for better raw image capture)

Folks who shoot 24p are under the illusion it will make their footage look better (to me it looks like bad american sitcom footage with blurry movement etc but thats my personal view)...or under the view (sometimes also dillusional) that maybe their stuff will be put to film (a dying format btw)

NTSC broadcast standard is 29.97fps (60p/60i 30p)
PAL broadcast standard is 25fps (50p/50i)
Film standard is 24p (try simply putting 24p footage to a 29.97 NTSC standard timeline)

ALL above formats have their uses and just as a standard as each other that is why they are there.
I live in the uk and shoot wedding videos...now not everyone has a bluray player (many of my clients do not) so I shoot for DVD standard (PAL 25fps) I own a couple of GH1's for this...now say if I wanted to buy a GH2 it would need 25fps to save a lot of headache pissing about with 24p.
A Panasonic TM700 for example is 50p (easy to drop to 25p) so why not a GH2?
Panasonic can lose a lot of consumers on this.

Problem is that a lot of DVXUSER members are from US states or NTSC countries...believe it or not guys there are other countries out there!

Anyway my rant is done...I can understand why many are excited that they dont have to pulldown 24p with a GH2 I have no interest in the GH2 till I see 25p 1080p implimented.
 
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mimirsan said:
FINALLY! Someone who talks some sense! That is exactly why 24p is what it is...people need to check into film history.

25p is a highly used standard in Euro/Hk and just as viable if not more as 24p.
(50i is 25p in wrapper...50p still gets finally gets dropped to 25p for compatibilty as its currently really only for better raw image capture)

Folks who shoot 24p are under the illusion it will make their footage look better (to me it looks like bad american sitcom footage with blurry movement etc but thats my personal view)...or under the view (sometimes also dillusional) that maybe their stuff will be put to film (a dying format btw)

NTSC broadcast standard is 29.97fps (60p/60i 30p)
PAL broadcast standard is 25fps (50p/50i)
Film standard is 24p (try simply putting 24p footage to a 29.97 NTSC standard timeline)

ALL above formats have their uses and just as a standard as each other that is why they are there.
I live in the uk and shoot wedding videos...now not everyone has a bluray player (many of my clients do not) so I shoot for DVD standard (PAL 25fps) I own a couple of GH1's for this...now say if I wanted to buy a GH2 it would need 25fps to save a lot of headache pissing about with 24p.
A Panasonic TM700 for example is 50p (easy to drop to 25p) so why not a GH2?
Panasonic can lose a lot of consumers on this.

Problem is that a lot of DVXUSER members are from US states or NTSC countries...believe it or not guys there are other countries out there!

Anyway my rant is done...I can understand why many are excited that they dont have to pulldown 24p with a GH2 I have no interest in the GH2 till I see 25p 1080p implimented.
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right.
so i don't get it. what's on the PAL version of the GH2? or there isn't any PAL version at all?
what's the difference?
and about Panasonic, i think they try to sell the AF100 as hard as possible and avoid consumers dilemma against the GH2 options. it's probably a minor firmware fix, and they'll just wait after they get enough AF100 sales... very cruel but it's just business.
 
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Why this thread turned into framrate discussion ?? I thought that this thread was for the discussion of GH2 not to have arguments about who's pecker is the best.
 
Matthew P said:
I think you're thinking about distribution.
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I am - in part because that's what I think of when someone refers to a "world standard". But more importantly, because that's Panasonic's rationale for not including 25P and 30P on these cameras.
 
As with a still image, is there a player that will show for video, not only FPS and resolution, but the Shutter Speed and ISO, Aperture?
 
tcglog said:
Real question: what is wrong with 50i?
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17mb 50i does not cut it with 1080p video...the point is that if theres 24p 1080p at a higher bitrate why not 25p (or 50p/50i) plus a progressive format gives better results.
 
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roei z said:
and about Panasonic, i think they try to sell the AF100 as hard as possible and avoid consumers dilemma against the GH2 options. it's probably a minor firmware fix, and they'll just wait after they get enough AF100 sales... very cruel but it's just business.
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Wierd then if its true why Panasonic is doing this...as some are under the impression 25p is not a "professional" standard...yet they put it in their expensive professional camera and not a general consumer one?
Im sure they will impliment it later...but should of been implimented originally. Panasonic make some strange decisions sometimes.
Sorry to continue making this off topic *in a way it isnt as it is still a discussion about the GH2*

Would looove to get a AF100 btw
 
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