GH2 GH2 native MTS. files need chroma upsampling in AE!!!

N

Nicky

Well-known member
Hi all, Ive noticed when using native MTS files from GH2 in After Effects the footage is clearly in need of chroma upsampling.

How can this be achieved in AE?

The reason I ask is because normally I use FCP log & transfer which automatically upsamples chroma and doesnt suffer from theose color artifacts... but what about the native AE workflow?


Much thanks
 
By chroma up-sampling I'm assuming you mean to take the 4:2:0 files and turn them into 4:2:2? If so, why do you say the footage is "clearly in need" of this?
 
Nicky said:
Hi all, Ive noticed when using native MTS files from GH2 in After Effects the footage is clearly in need of chroma upsampling.

How can this be achieved in AE?

The reason I ask is because normally I use FCP log & transfer which automatically upsamples chroma and doesnt suffer from theose color artifacts... but what about the native AE workflow?


Much thanks
Click to expand...

Well, the answer is... transcode to Apple Pro Res HQ, which I believe is 4:2:2... and problems solved... FCP may 'hide' this from you in terms of requiring a separate step, but if that's what you've been working with... then you may have to use a tool to transcode, if you are no longer using FCP.
 
GH2 HBR files are wrapped in an interlaced file, and there is nothing in the file that indicates they actually contain progressive footage. When you import HBR files into After Effects, you need to use the Interpret Footage dialog to set Separate Fields off. AE will then decode the footage as progressive and that will eliminate spurious interlace artifacts.
 
lpowell said:
GH2 HBR files are wrapped in an interlaced file.
Click to expand...

I question that on the grounds that Panasonic is using the AVCHD logo for the GH2, and that means adhering to AVCHD specifications, which include 24 fps recorded as genuine progressive images, not PsF frames like some other camera makers use. And in fact Premiere Pro is seeing them as progressive files.
 
Jim Simon said:
I question that on the grounds that Panasonic is using the AVCHD logo for the GH2, and that means adhering to AVCHD specifications, which include 24 fps recorded as genuine progressive images, not PsF frames like some other camera makers use. And in fact Premiere Pro is seeing them as progressive files.
Click to expand...

That was only added into the 2.0 AVCHD addendum. Which version of AE? Previous versions (including Premiere and FCP and everything) interpreted AVCHD as interlaced. Current versions can spot are they interlaced or progressive usually.

Converting to prores 4:2:2 does not do any "upsampling" as such. Interlace artifacts (deinterlacing in this case) are a completely different thing anyway.
 
maarek said:
Converting to prores 4:2:2 does not do any "upsampling" as such.
Click to expand...

Exactly. I suspect he wanted to convert to ProRes 4:2:2 for chroma keying or something similar, but the ProRes file is not going be any better at doing that than the native in After Effects.
 
The problem is not with your video editor, it's an oversight on Panasonic's part. There are no tags inside an HBR file that identify it as progressive, it is formatted exactly the same as an interlaced FSH file. The only difference, in fact, is that the image sensor is scanned progressively in HBR mode, instead of being scanned in interlaced FSH mode. Other than that, HBR and FSH files are recorded in exactly the same way. That's why it's necessary to make sure that HBR files are interpreted as progressive footage on import.
 
maarek said:
That was only added into the 2.0 AVCHD addendum.
Click to expand...
No, it was in the original 1.0 also.

But there's a fundamental misunderstanding in that statement: just because a camera is shooting footage at 24fps, does not OBLIGATE the manufacturer to record that footage as a native 24p file. There's nothing stopping them from using 3:2 pulldown and embedding it within a 60i file.
 
The AVCHD specification has always had native 24p recording at both 720 and 1080 as part of the mix.

Premiere Pro has been able to properly see those files since at least CS4.
 
maarek said:
Only for 720p. Atleast in EU countries where we use 25fps mostly.
Click to expand...
1080/24p was in AVCHD 1.0. There was no provision for 30p or 25p at all, 25p was required to be embedded in 50i, 30p was required to be embedded in 60i.

In fact, as I look at AVCHD 2.0, I still don't see any provision for 30p or 25p native recording... 2.0 added 1080/50p and 1080/60p and 3D. No change to provide for 25p or 30p.
 
Barry_Green said:
1080/24p was in AVCHD 1.0. There was no provision for 30p or 25p at all, 25p was required to be embedded in 50i, 30p was required to be embedded in 60i.

In fact, as I look at AVCHD 2.0, I still don't see any provision for 30p or 25p native recording... 2.0 added 1080/50p and 1080/60p and 3D. No change to provide for 25p or 30p.
Click to expand...

And this is why the G5 stills records 1080i/30 PSF and I can only assume that the GH3 will record the same. All AVC-HD has done is slow Panasonic and Sony from progressing as fast as their competitors. With AVC-HD Panasonic and Sony have to change the standard before they can implement a new format instead of just adding the new format and saying not all devices will support this new format.
 
No Im talking about 24P footage (23.98 no fields) I was examining, besides I even remember last year playing with the gh13 hack which I set to 25P (50i no feilds) at that time and I came to the same consensus - Using FCP log & transfer prores 422 definitely smooths out those fine color jaggies around details. I thought native MTS. files in AE (Im on CS5) was the best workflow to maintain general quality (both dynamic range and color details)?

Im starting to think 5D2RGB transcoding software is the best workflow because it retains all possible dynamic range and while transcoding to prores 422 I would assume it smooths out chroma conversion smoothly like FCP log & transfer does.
 
Nicky said:
No Im talking about 24P footage (23.98 no fields) I was examining, besides I even remember last year playing with the gh13 hack which I set to 25P (50i no feilds) at that time and I came to the same consensus - Using FCP log & transfer prores 422 definitely smooths out those fine color jaggies around details. I thought native MTS. files in AE (Im on CS5) was the best workflow to maintain general quality (both dynamic range and color details)?

Im starting to think 5D2RGB transcoding software is the best workflow because it retains all possible dynamic range and while transcoding to prores 422 I would assume it smooths out chroma conversion smoothly like FCP log & transfer does.
Click to expand...

The problem is I don't really know what you mean. Is FCP deinterlacing that stuff? Is your sequence set to none and the files set to progressive in your bin?

Is AE seeing the files properly? Just click on in the interpret footage thing and check that there is no separate fields going on.

Or if you are talking about actually SMOOTHING out the 4:2:0 to 4:4:4 you have to do it manually in AE. Do you know how?
 
No FCP isnt de-interlacing because I checked. Yes sequence and footage is set to progressive/none fields properly. Yes AE is set properly to progressive/none fields I can assure you.

I just tested 5DtoRGB and it smooths out chroma jaggies beautifully.. even better than FCP log & transfer!

There has to be a way of smoothing chroma jaggies in AE.. would you care to share???
 
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