GH2 for 'Cinematic look'

L Fernando

L Fernando

Member
Hello to all of you! This is my first post in this forum, and I hope you guys could help me out. I'm about to buy my first HDSLR camera (:cheesy:). I'm torn between the Canon 7D and the GH2.

I love the GH2 because the image quality is just superb, very crisp and more detailed than the 7D. Sadly, the Panasonic GH2 lacks (in my opinion) the 'cinematic look' that I find so appealing in the Canon family (7D,60D,5D). I've seen footage of both cameras in 24fps, and the GH2 looks like high quality video, If you know what I mean.

I will be shooting mainly in 24fps, 60/50 will only be used for slow motion. I've seen videos with different lenses, yet they lack this 'film look' that I see in the 7D, even in the RAW footage.

Is this something that can worked out in the options or something? or should I just resign and accept that the GH2 is not for me? I'm very new to this, your help will be deeply appreciated!
 
If you saw GH2 videos shot with kit lenses, then I can see why you think they look "videoey". As with any DSLR, to get a passable film look, you need to use a fast prime lens and use its wider apertures. Lower the sharpness, contrast, and noise reduction settings to -2 on the camera. Good cinematic lighting is the other ingredient. The GH1 and 2 are very capable of a cinematic look when these guidelines are followed.
 
htinla said:
If you saw GH2 videos shot with kit lenses, then I can see why you think they look "videoey". As with any DSLR, to get a passable film look, you need to use a fast prime lens and use its wider apertures. Lower the sharpness, contrast, and noise reduction settings to -2 on the camera. Good cinematic lighting is the other ingredient. The GH1 and 2 are very capable of a cinematic look when these guidelines are followed.
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I totally understand what you're saying. I've seen some GH2 footage with different lenses and It still looks 'videoey'. Maybe it has to do more with the settings too, like you said. I've seen some raw 7D footage with kit lenses and no color correction and It still has a more filmic look.

I wish someone could try and make the GH2 footage look like a 7D by just tweaking the camera settings and not by editing it in post. :undecided
 
I can understand why you´re asking. I also think there is something more filmic about the files right from the 7D and 5DII IMO :) .

I´d say its up to higher sharpness of the GH2 as said above and a different color tone, saturation, camera settings... But what you need is image as real as it gets with no sort of "less sharp and nice coloury" image since you can do this in the post. And you´re going to do a lot of post when you´re a cinematic look hunter :D

So basicaly, GH2 is what you need, even if the footage doesn´t look that filmic rigth from the camera.
 
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I am coming from the stills photography world.

Could someone, please, define what is meant with the "filmic look" or the "cinematic look" ?

I also understand that I should abhor the "video look"?
 
I´ll try, but since there is no official yes or no... :)

Cinematic:
-shallow depth of field (since they mostly use prime lenses)
-24 fps (although 25p looks the same in the end...)
-1/48 shutter mostly (although in new movies higher shutter speeds like 1/100 and more are used for action scenes)
-(if wanted) 2,35:1 aspect ratio
-a tiny bit less contrast and specific color treatement
-sometimes vignetting (barely noticable)
if a style of shooting is considered:
-dolly shots, stedicam moves etc.
-...

As for video, it´s really hard to define, mostly for me, old 4:3 NTSC image is as video-y asi it gets :).

Hope I don´t get hanged and quatered for this so so specification :D
 
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Well, clearly the Canon and Panasonic cameras process their video signals in different ways.

GH has more resolution, so it tends to be sharper, couple that with the very sharp nature of the kit lens and you have what some may consider too sharp and therefore video-y.

Here's a color correction breakdown of a scene shot with the GH1 and the 14-140 lens at 720p: http://vimeo.com/17728149

I think the final outcome is much more neutral and organic than the raw material I started with. Since it's a flashback, that's what I want.

Another tip is to experiment with diffusion. Schneider Classic Soft is a great subtle diffusion that can do wonders. Couple that with old Nikon manual primes and you may be getting to what you want.
 
Yes, compared to the GH1, the higher resolution of the GH2 sensor doesn't help in creating a film look. The sharpness of the GH2 image system needs to be knocked down a bit using softening/diffusion filters (either physical or by grading) to give its images the softer, less edgier feel associated with film. A more popular method is using old manual Nikon, Canon, Pentax, etc. lenses whose resolving power and contrast is somehow more pleasant and filmic, and shot wide open can produce beautiful out-of-focus effects comparable to the Canons (although if you like your backgrounds really blurred, then the GH2 is no match to the 5D). The Canon's seem more inherently filmic because of their lower system resolution and shallower DOF allowed by the larger sensor. It's likely that if you consider shallow DOF as the most important factor in a film look, then that is why you gravitate towards the Canons.
 
i feel quite the opposite.. most of the 7d/5d footage i see looks to me like video..
the Panasonic colors look more organic and neutral to me..
 
Daniel Krnac said:
I´ll try, but since there is no official yes or no... :)

Cinematic:
-shallow depth of field (since they mostly use prime lenses)
-24 fps (although 25p looks the same in the end...)
-1/48 shutter mostly (although in new movies higher shutter speeds like 1/100 and more are used for action scenes)
-(if wanted) 2,35:1 aspect ratio
-a tiny bit less contrast and specific color treatement
-sometimes vignetting (barely noticable)
if a style of shooting is considered:
-dolly shots, stedicam moves etc.
-...

As for video, it´s really hard to define, mostly for me, old 4:3 NTSC image is as video-y asi it gets :).

Hope I don´t get hanged and quatered for this so so specification :D
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Thanks, Daniel.

If I understand you correctly, you can choose to make the output of a relatively large sensor camera like the GH2 as "cinematic" as you want to? Assuming that one has the right tools available.
 
To be honest, I find that a good majority of HD cinema these days is starting to look a bit video-y due to its sharpness.
 
It is not about the sharpness/resolution, but the way the camera deals with the sharp edges.

If you down-rez some RED footage to 1080p, it will be alot sharper than any DSLR footage, but the edge sharpness will be smoother.

This, coupled with dynamic range and how the camera processes those highlights/shadows are what really make something filmic. (my opinion)
 
edge sharpness
Click to expand...

so is there any way to decrease edge sharpness only from dslr footage without just using a simple unsharpen/blur effect, which IMHO doesn't cut it - so it looks more organic like REDs?

Thanks :)
 
Actually I remember when the RED first came out, alot of directors didn't like the look of it because looked too video like and not cinematic.

But really in the end the definition of "Cinematic look" varies alot from person to person and has much to do with what cinema looked like when they were growing up or what/when films had the most impact on them.
 
htinla said:
Yes, compared to the GH1, the higher resolution of the GH2 sensor doesn't help in creating a film look. The sharpness of the GH2 image system needs to be knocked down a bit using softening/diffusion filters (either physical or by grading) to give its images the softer, less edgier feel associated with film. A more popular method is using old manual Nikon, Canon, Pentax, etc. lenses whose resolving power and contrast is somehow more pleasant and filmic, and shot wide open can produce beautiful out-of-focus effects comparable to the Canons (although if you like your backgrounds really blurred, then the GH2 is no match to the 5D). The Canon's seem more inherently filmic because of their lower system resolution and shallower DOF allowed by the larger sensor. It's likely that if you consider shallow DOF as the most important factor in a film look, then that is why you gravitate towards the Canons.
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Ahh, I see. That´s why I bought a bluray Player and a Full HD LCD. Because Hollywood movies look soft and unsharp ^^

...I´ve never seen anything more detailed than 35 mm.

Edit: stockfuel got it right, i just read.
 
If I wanted a soft looking video then I would get a Canon DSLR but I wanted a body that would match the quality and detail I get from my Panasonic HDC-TM700 3MOS 1080p60 camcorder and the GH2 looks as close as any camera I have seen so far.


5267764174_755d8e68bd_b.jpg
 
dts said:
so is there any way to decrease edge sharpness only from dslr footage without just using a simple unsharpen/blur effect, which IMHO doesn't cut it - so it looks more organic like REDs?
Click to expand...

Taking the in-camera sharpening down help, and then resharpen in post.... but it will never have the "organic sharpness" of a cinema camera. Edge sharpening is a really hard thing to explain!

Dazza said:
Actually I remember when the RED first came out, alot of directors didn't like the look of it because looked too video like and not cinematic.
Click to expand...

dynamic range was the problem.. the R1-m sensor was not quite the 11 stops of DR that I think RED had proclaimed, more like 8/9... not much better than a 5DII. Also, the RED software and color science was not as advanced, and struggled to get the best out of the RAW footage. R1-m footage with cine-x looks much flatter, with more DR now. R1-MX is very close to the film look. (my opinion)

I remember reading a quote from a DP (can't remember who) who said the DSLRs are not film like and not video like, but a new look that should be embraced and worked with, rather than worried about. I think that is the best way to look at it, for now. (I probably badly paraphrased that quote).
 
Pietro Impagliazzo said:
Well, clearly the Canon and Panasonic cameras process their video signals in different ways.

GH has more resolution, so it tends to be sharper, couple that with the very sharp nature of the kit lens and you have what some may consider too sharp and therefore video-y.

Here's a color correction breakdown of a scene shot with the GH1 and the 14-140 lens at 720p: http://vimeo.com/17728149

I think the final outcome is much more neutral and organic than the raw material I started with. Since it's a flashback, that's what I want.

Another tip is to experiment with diffusion. Schneider Classic Soft is a great subtle diffusion that can do wonders. Couple that with old Nikon manual primes and you may be getting to what you want.
Click to expand...
Muito bem dito, Pietro. Fine example :-)
 
stockfuel said:
It is not about the sharpness/resolution, but the way the camera deals with the sharp edges.

If you down-rez some RED footage to 1080p, it will be alot sharper than any DSLR footage, but the edge sharpness will be smoother.

This, coupled with dynamic range and how the camera processes those highlights/shadows are what really make something filmic. (my opinion)
Click to expand...

question is, what is the most efficient way of mimicing it with 1000$ GH2 (before post)
 
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