Whats up guys and gals...I'm sure there are some ladies out there. A day ago, I was in the editing lab and tried to shoot some stills of the ever elusive, sony mini dv capture deck. I tried to be cheeky and shoot in a black and white picture profile, making it look super outdated, so after framing and snapping a few stills, i reviewed and everything was good. I downloaded the images and viewed it on an iMac and oddly, the images snapped (4) 3 were in COLOR. I retried using the same and other black and white picture profiles and same thing, called Panasonic and they said I have to used the software that came with the gh2 or they can't guarantee the final image and how it will look??? Really...? Anyway, got home and installed the software on a mbp and vwalaa, images were all COLOR, although I took them in all black and white pure profiles, all in RAW mode..Any body has this issue? Oddly it will mostly record in jpeg, but one slips every now and then, rendering an images taken in a black and white pp, in COLOR...? Also it happens using the kit 14-42 and both my rokkor primes, which I love... My gh2 is 5 and a half months old and panny said it might need a tuning? At 5 months? Although its covered I don't want to send it in because they probably will upgrade to the new software as a way of trial and error in fixing the body. I've never hacked it, but plan on it in the future.... Again is any body else having this problem or am i the only unfortunate one? Thanks ahead folks...
GH2 Gh2 ..Can't capture stills in any black and white picture profile in RAW?
- Thread starter rokkor
- Start date
GrahamH
Well-known member
If I shoot RAW+JPEG in B&W film mode, and open the files in CS5 on my PC, I get color RAWs and B&W jpegs. Which is exactly what I would expect to get. The sensor is a color sensor, so it makes sense that the RAW output from it is in color.
I'm confused by you saying you are "shooting in RAW" but "it will mostly record in jpeg" .... do you mean the Panasonic software mostly (but not always) converts your raw images to B&W jpeg?
I'm confused by you saying you are "shooting in RAW" but "it will mostly record in jpeg" .... do you mean the Panasonic software mostly (but not always) converts your raw images to B&W jpeg?
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Firstly, there is nothing wrong with your camera, what happened is what is supposed to happen.
Before I go on you can be assured that those black and white settings or the potential for them are in that RAW file, it is just that you will need to set the parameters for that black and white image on the RAW converter on your computer. This is the thing about RAW images, you set the parameters on the RAW converter on your computer, and not on your camera. You can't directly view a RAW file, and what you see on your computer is a temporary JPEG conversion, at the default settings. The appearance of this image will change if you move the sliders and tabs from their default settings. I assume you have or are using the Silkypix RAW converter which came with the camera. Unfortunately it is quite a few years since I last used Silkypix and I don't have it on my computer, so I can't tell you where the tabs for black and white conversions are, but they will be there. You will have to look at the help menu, and unless it has changed, then English translations in the Silkypix help file are terrible, although unwittingly amusing.
When shooting RAW stills, camera settings on picture parameters have no effect on the RAW image. This is because a RAW image is what it says it is, RAW sensor data i.e. it does not have any fixed picture parameters, they are set in the RAW converter on your computer, and not in camera. This is the key point with RAW images, they don't have an picture parameters already applied to them. They are left for you to apply them at the RAW conversion stage.
When you shoot a JPEG the camera takes the RAW data, and applies the camera picture parameters to the JPEG, which it creates. The parameters/settings are now baked into the image. You can alter these parameters to a certain extent with an image editor, but it will degrade the image. Whereas with a RAW file none of these picture parameters have yet been applied. The potential for all these picture parameters are still contained in the RAW data. So you have the full range of white balance settings, colour (including b&w), sharpness settings, contrast, saturation, noise reduction levels open for you to apply, and there will be no loss of image quality. In other words you can explore all the possible picture parameter settings, and you won't degrade the image whichever one you chose.
Before I go on you can be assured that those black and white settings or the potential for them are in that RAW file, it is just that you will need to set the parameters for that black and white image on the RAW converter on your computer. This is the thing about RAW images, you set the parameters on the RAW converter on your computer, and not on your camera. You can't directly view a RAW file, and what you see on your computer is a temporary JPEG conversion, at the default settings. The appearance of this image will change if you move the sliders and tabs from their default settings. I assume you have or are using the Silkypix RAW converter which came with the camera. Unfortunately it is quite a few years since I last used Silkypix and I don't have it on my computer, so I can't tell you where the tabs for black and white conversions are, but they will be there. You will have to look at the help menu, and unless it has changed, then English translations in the Silkypix help file are terrible, although unwittingly amusing.
When shooting RAW stills, camera settings on picture parameters have no effect on the RAW image. This is because a RAW image is what it says it is, RAW sensor data i.e. it does not have any fixed picture parameters, they are set in the RAW converter on your computer, and not in camera. This is the key point with RAW images, they don't have an picture parameters already applied to them. They are left for you to apply them at the RAW conversion stage.
When you shoot a JPEG the camera takes the RAW data, and applies the camera picture parameters to the JPEG, which it creates. The parameters/settings are now baked into the image. You can alter these parameters to a certain extent with an image editor, but it will degrade the image. Whereas with a RAW file none of these picture parameters have yet been applied. The potential for all these picture parameters are still contained in the RAW data. So you have the full range of white balance settings, colour (including b&w), sharpness settings, contrast, saturation, noise reduction levels open for you to apply, and there will be no loss of image quality. In other words you can explore all the possible picture parameter settings, and you won't degrade the image whichever one you chose.
Thanks guys for responding so quickly, I've been on these boards for a while now but just joined. I'm just getting use to using RAW since I got my GH2, I use it for video mostly, but I'm getting back into stills. So basically when I shoot RAW , especial in blk and white, I fix the RAW parameters and do the parameters after? What software do you guys use? Can photoshop work on these RW2 files? Also When I try to use iPhoto to manipulate a RW2 file it says I have to save as another extension
Tiff, Jpeg but those incur a loss of data, no?
Tiff, Jpeg but those incur a loss of data, no?
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GrahamH
Well-known member
Recent updates of Adobe Camera Raw (ACR) within Photoshop will open Pany's RAW files,
But I think you need to be using a recent version of Photoshop - i.e. CS5 or newer
Correct.
But I think you need to be using a recent version of Photoshop - i.e. CS5 or newer
Correct.
Personally I use Lightroom for RAW conversions. Photoshop should handle the RAW conversions well, although it depends on you having the version of ACR that handles RAW files from the GH2. This to some extent depends on what version of Photoshop you have as if it's an older version it might not be updateable to the version of ACR that handles GH2 RAW files. You will normally find presets for black and white images, although I think with the channel mixer you can get better results. Whilst I used to do a lot of black and white film stills photography, to tell the truth I haven't done much in recent years since digital. So I'm not the best person for advice on more advanced techniques. I'm a PC user so I don't know much about iPhoto. However, the RAW file itself is never manipulated. You set the parameters for a RAW conversion and then produce a JPEG or TIFF and save it with those parameters applied, and then work on that. The RAW file is sort of like a digital negative and is not altered by the JPEGs or TIFFs you produce from it. You can't actually see a RAW file because it is basically just sensor data, and your computer has to produce a JPEG simply so you can see it. However, it is necessary for you to save that image as a JPEG or TIFF before you can do anything else with it. RAW converters will usually save the parameters you apply with the sliders in the RAW converter. However you still need to save it as a JPEG or TIFF to do further work on it or get it printed.
btw. If you have an older version of Photoshop that won't support the latest version of ACR which allows GH2 conversions there is a work around. Adobe do a free DNG converter. DNG being the universal RAW file format that Adobe developed. If you convert your GH2 RW2 files to DNG they can be read by even older versions of Photoshop and other software. ACR just stands for Adobe Camera RAW and it is what Photoshop uses for RAW conversions. You can get both the latest version of ACR and the DNG converter free from the Adobe website.
j1clark@ucsd.edu
Veteran
Tiff can be configured to use NONE, or LZW compression which is a lossless compression technique. JPEG is lossy, with no other option other than 'how much loss'...
You would have to know what your software can produce for TIFF with no loss. I've never used iPhoto... but Photoshop is capable of lossless TIFF output.
As a philosophical point, I'd question the desire to output a 'raw' B&W image... 'raw' should be as close to the sensor data as possible, which in this and all DSLRs is RGB data. Then in Photoshop or Lightroom, manipulate to the desired result, be it 'b&w', or whatever.
The tools available in Photoshop, from 2.0 on, for obtaining a B&W image, are better than the 'in camera'... of course one does have to research how best to do that... as the 'one button' solutions often are not really all that good... well, unless one has never stood in a darkroom and printed B&W...
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