GH1 vs Red One vs Canon 5D Mk II footage comparison shoot out!

TimurCivan said:
Why do you need to own a camera? Spend that money on your film! rent it from someone, and then you dont have to count pennies to have an additional lens....

You can have EXACTLY what you want!

8mm Ultra prime? You got it! Optimo 24-290? at your command!

Seriously, for let say youre going to shoot a short, ad youre planning on getting a VDSLR... for example. one you can "own".

The 3,000-5,000$ you're going to spend on a GH1/MkII, a couple lenses, and some accesories is about a fair price.

If you rent and pull one or two favors you can have for your shoot:

RED one package, Optimo 24-290, Set of ultra primes, a dolley, a 3ton grip package with a gaffer an grip!


this is the SAME MONEY!!!!!!!!!! Now you can focus on your story.

now your short will have some visual firepower, with real tools, and therefore will make it more competetive in the film market. Godforbid you make some money.... then you can have the same awesome tools for your next film / musicvideo/ commercial...



For example, Some friends of mine, that i met at the HVX bootcamp in NYC a couple years ago, had just bought a HVX package, lights, tripod, macbook etc... they spent 10grand!

They apprached me to shoot some of their films. i asked them what their budget was. They said they didint have one. Why because they spend their lifes savings on camera gear. They wound up returning the gear, sans the macbook, and now im proud to say with that 8K$ have made three beautiful films.
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This depends entirely on where you live.
 
Illya Friedman said:
Barry, Nighthawk, Kholi et al,

It sounds like you all really want an SD/composite output from the camera. About 3-months ago I spent an afternoon and pretty much solved the problem by customizing a bit of old school (cough, cough... film) technology. I designed an eyepiece video tap, adapted to the GH1; I even made plans for a properly lightweight power supply, not 1x but 2x 601 outputs yadda, yadda.

Priced the whole thing out and it was going to cost a chunk of change. Production didn't want to pay for it, so we went with the really cheap (free) SD output "rig", this involved a Canon HV20. Thing looks ugly but effective for the jib shots none the less.

I've held off on making the video tap a reality, because if I was to bet on one thing being updated in firmware it would be a live output, and then the video tap project would be a total waste of time for me. I have no knowledge if enabling live video is even possible in the GH1; it just seems more likely than any other update to me.

If there's enough interest I'll actually build the prototype I worked out, in a proper machined housing and take some pictures of the part and the live images. THEN, If there's enough interest in the prototype, I can build a small run of video taps.

Even if I got enough people to buy one, and I did the work at a break even (or near enough break even) operation, to cover my machine time and prototype expenses, the investment on a video tap would still work out to be several hundred $ per unit.

So let's say I do all that and make a small and elegant GH1 video tap- how much would you actually be willing to spend on an accessory that solves the SD output problem??

I know Nighthawk says he will kill, but will he spend?
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I´m from Germany and very interested in the GH1 video tap. Is it available now?
 
TimurCivan said:
I think im just thinking in terms of the folks i deal with. My DVX100 did teach me Cinematography....

But i still think People who are trying to be Directors dont need a camera..... then need a pencil, and acting lessons. ( seriously, it helps you relate to the talent)
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Some of the best director's in the world do their own camera or learned by shooting.
 
I live in Lebanon, everything we shoot is finished still to SD. I use my vdslrs for SD content, and they do a fantastic job when going from 1080 tall to 720 or 960 wide. A video tap would be fantastic.

Am interested and very close to the cost of the csh and the pl mount adapter. A lot of people here like your work, we can save up for these video taps if you make them and would love to help (not making them but we'll gladly hand ilya preorders on things he's still going to make if they work) as encouragement. I for one can trust ilya friedman, and 300 bucks is 300 bucks I would pay that for a video tap.

Cheers all

T
 
So a camera operator friend of mine has been perfecting a GH1 video tap. He had already started the process when I told him what I had planned. I figured I'd let him do it, since he's built 3-4 of these before, and I haven't.

The GH1 SD video tap is close, but not 100% just yet, it would have been done two months ago except (thankfully for him)- he keeps getting work, and is just wrapping a feature now. I haven't bugged him about finishing it, because this time of year work is usually slowing down, and like many freelancers camera people, the lousy economy means making ends meet can be even more difficult.

I know he's got some down time near the end of the month and he's going to take another crack at finishing the final prototype.

I would have posted more about progress, but I received a couple emails from the management telling me I didn't contribute enough value to DVXuser, and that even though I've been doing so since 2005, putting my company URL in my signature is now a violation of the rules.

Because of this I ask that anyone still interested in a eyepiece video tap, please send me a PM here with their contact information or send me an email here (http://www.hotrodcameras.com/about/contact/)

Because of this, I've already started phasing out my posting, insider information, and helpful advice on DVXuser. Once I find a place that I like as much (or more), I'll resume frequent posting.
 
I don't know what to say there Illya but that is completely silly. I mean because of your blog on your site it helped me tremendously with the GH1. Wow.
 
That's a shame. IMO you've added plenty of sensible debate and also helped a lot of us get up to speed quickly with these cameras.
 
Before this becomes an issue, it's worth reading http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=98521 where one of the rules is -

No Profiteering
(don't try selling your products here unless you're an official site sponsor. It costs a lot of money to administer this site, those costs are defrayed by our sponsors, and it's not fair to paying sponsors to have people using the site they pay for used to promote other products. This means no commercial signatures and no advertising, unless you're an official DVXUser site sponsor; those wanting to become site sponsors should send a PM to Jason Ramsey, DVXUser Marketing Manager.)
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If Illya has not been respecting that clearly stated policy - and if it's being equally applied to everyone - then tough as it might be on someone who clearly does contribute (though maybe not as a sponsor), then... them's the rules.
 
Ozpeter said:
If Illya has not been respecting that clearly stated policy - and if it's being equally applied to everyone - then tough as it might be on someone who clearly does contribute (though maybe not as a sponsor), then... them's the rules.
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This actually occurred well over a month ago. I only recently began reading the site occasionally once again. I'm not going to comment on this matter further, or publicly share transcripts of the email conversations. My intention is not to antagonize. I just don't want to leave anyone hanging who may have been expecting more information.

I do want to thank the people who emailed me, I appreciate your own stories and support. It's very kind. Thankfully we all live in a time where there's a number of sandboxes available to play in. I only have a limited amount of time to devote to such "play"; so I'm trying them all out to find the best one.
 
Ozpeter said:
them's the rules.
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The signature policy has been in place for over three and a half years. Ever since we started taking on sponsors to support the growth of the site.

It's really easy to comply with the policy: either 1) sign up as a sponsor, or 2) don't try selling your products here. Post information, share, whatever, but don't have a link to where you sell stuff.

That's all we ask. It really couldn't be much simpler, could it?

I enjoy Illya's posts and hope he continues here. But that policy has been posted in the announcements since March 12, 2006.
 
Barry_Green said:
I enjoy Illya's posts and hope he continues here. But that policy has been posted in the announcements since March 12, 2006.
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Thanks for pointing that out. Barry, you and I know each other at least in passing while you're working the Panasonic trade show booth over the last few years. I have no complaints about the majority of the time I've spent on DVXuser. I also know you don't have anything to do with DVXUser advertising, or the emails I received.

In fact, until recently I gladly would have become a sponsor. I am fortunate enough to have a budget to spend on marketing. I worked in marketing and business development for a long time before starting Hot Rod Cameras, and the benefits and value that comes from being an official sponsor is not lost on me.

After this went down, I spent nearly a month considering my options, and if DVXuser had been inside the top 10 traffic sources to my website, (or twitter account...etc) I would have felt obligated to sponsor, but it's not.

Weeks ago I attempted to resolve the situation and was ignored. Since that's how it is, fine. I respond to all attempts people make to contact me (maybe not immediately, but within a reasonable time), and I expect others to offer the same courtesy. I feel I waited long enough for a reply, so out of principal it would be wrong to award any sponsorship money.

Barry, I'm hopeful you and I will continue to be friendly acquaintences elsewhere on-line.
 
Absolutely we can and shall. Disappointed it didn't work out for you here though, we always have appreciated all your contributions.
 
with all due respect illya, I received a pm from you about your signature being removed. I responded at length to it. I don't have any response from you since then. If I missed it, my apologies...

At any rate, if you'd ever like to discuss any business matters with me, the best way to get in touch with me is via email to jason at landmine dot tv.

later,
jason
 
I would have posted more about progress, but I received a couple emails from the management telling me I didn't contribute enough value to DVXuser
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Ok. excuse me, but this is completely false. I do have your pm to me and my lengthy response still in my saved pm's. If you are going to try to make a public issue out of this, at least do not state falsehoods or accuse us of saying things that were never stated at all.

i'm not trying to make a public issue out of this, but you kinda did, and if you say certain things, I'm going to have to make an objection.

later,
jason
 
I started to type a long-winded response, then I changed my mind and started to write another email. I finally realized it's just not worth it.

Happy trails!
 
Kholi said:
And this is exactly why I say the MKii's extra stop is useless. You need to bend your way of thinking if you're used to shooting @ Academy FOV. And that means either framing for the 720p crop later or stopping down.





A) ISO is a tricky thing when dealing with RED. It's native ISO is somewhere around 250. Meaning if you rate the image @ 320 it looks like it's underexposed a bit by your meter's measure. If you rate it at about 250 then it's properly exposed by your meter's measure. I don't know how this changed in build 20, I'm assuming that everything is damned near spot on.

So yes, the MKii and GH-1 are more sensitive @ 320 than RED.

B) Noisy footage has always been a deal with RED. But keep in mind that this footage is at 3K and is not representative of RED's max potential. Regardless of how much it actually outputs, 4K images look much better, cleaner, than 3K or 2K. Second, this is an older build.

Believe me when I say that as of Build 20 and Color Science, other camera manufacturers need to once again step their game up. In fact, Color Science makes old footage look like gold once more. It is indeed a new camera without a hardware update, and I can only imagine how extra sick a new sensor update to the RED would be.

This footage, while well shot, doesn't look like it was posted to the full potential that RED has. Regardless, the GH-1 holds ground like whoa.
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I agree Red at 4K is a camera who's only comparable is a sony F35, which is about 300K (because you also need media, a lens, etc.) , so 10x the cost, and very complicated/heavy/annoying on set.
 
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Robert Ruffo said:
I agree Red at 4K is a camera who's only comperable is a sony F35, which is about 300K (because you also need media, a lens, etc.) , so 10x the cost, and very complicated/heavy/annoying on set.
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hey don't forget the arri d21, panavision and phantom
 
Mike@AF said:
If you look around you'll find some Red footage that looks way better than what's being shown here. This doesn't look like an objective comparison to me.
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No, its' not. web compressed video tells you nothing. Do you really think that us guys with film degrees and years of set experince would be stupid enough to pay 30K for an outfitted Red if the 5D or 7D were even close in performance? We're not stupid, and we like money just like anyone else.
 
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