GH1 vs Canon MkII

Tameside said:
There is no mud in 720p
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That's not true. It also appears in 720p footage I've seen. But it's not as imminent as in 1080p footage though.

As for the comparison:
The 5D features 35mbps AVC, that's really hard to beat. It will always look better than the GH1 AVCHD footage. But the 5D is also a grand more (without lens I guess). And the 5D only shoots at 30fps which is a total showstopper for PAL-users.
 
The GH1 might be ok for viewing on small monitors, but it is bound to look very bad on a 100" projector screen.
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A lot of people on here, myself included, have seen footage direct from this camera played back on a large screen and IMO it looks amazing. Maybe you should try the same test yourself before boldly commenting on a video that's been compressed for viewing at postage stamp size on a website.

These are both great cameras that are capable in their own right, both have problems. Hopefully these will get worked around in the not too distant future.
 
Most Projector screens are SD. Should look fine :)

5DMkII is $3500...compared to not having a camera due to price the GH1 wins.

I assume this is settable in camera but most 5DMkII stuff I've seen is waaaaaaay too contrasty. Lots of detail lost. Doesn't really help if it's fixable in-camera if nobody is doing it.
 
pailes said:
And the 5D only shoots at 30fps which is a total showstopper for PAL-users.
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With 30p being the only option in the 5D I don't believe that causes trouble for PAL users.

1/30 is fine on my NTSC GH1 under PAL lights, however 1/50 is more robust.

The mode (24p,60i or 60p) does not make any difference... just the shutter speed.

With a high shutter speed like 1/300 on the 5D do you get flickering under PAL lights? I do on my NTSC GH1 and equally a PAL GH1 does under 60hz NTSC land lights.

PS - mud in 720p AVCHD = yes, rarely. Mud in 720p MJPEG = never.
 
The 30p only does cause problems for us users who want more options, PAL or NTSC, though. For me it's 60p, 24p, or bust.
 
With a high shutter speed like 1/300 on the 5D do you get flickering under PAL lights? I do on my NTSC GH1 and equally a PAL GH1 does under 60hz NTSC land lights.
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Is this such a deal now that the Canon has manual control? I've been shooting in 30p mjpeg on the GH1 the last couple of days and have had light flicker with the shutter set at 60. Set to 1/50 or 1/100 and no problem.

The 30p only does cause problems for us users who want more options, PAL or NTSC, though. For me it's 60p, 24p, or bust.
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Yep, I think the main advantages for the GH1 is multiple frame rates, adaptable to any lens and great control. The Canon is definitely the low light king and is FF compatible.
 
Pepster said:
The GH1 might be ok for viewing on small monitors, but it is bound to look very bad on a 100" projector screen.
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This is absolutely untrue. Only someone who does not know how to work with the camera, or has never used the camera would make such a claim.

I have seen the images on a 30' screen, powered by a CP2000. Many more people will have the ability to see them soon too.
 
pailes said:
That's not true. It also appears in 720p footage I've seen. But it's not as imminent as in 1080p footage though.

As for the comparison:
The 5D features 35mbps AVC, that's really hard to beat. It will always look better than the GH1 AVCHD footage. But the 5D is also a grand more (without lens I guess). And the 5D only shoots at 30fps which is a total showstopper for PAL-users.
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There is no mud in 720p footage. There is some softening of edges when panning but it is certainly not the same phenomenon as the mud and is normal especially when you consider the 720p AVCHD mode is 60 frames per second. Show me a 720p sample with mud. I have not seen any. And... you can use MJPEG for the 720p video too and there is absolutely no mud or even any softening in that mode.

And as for viewing, I've viewed 720p footage on a high end 65 inch plasma and 65 inch LCD. Looks great!

Mike
 
For the record, there is also mud in MKii footage when panning, especially in bright situations. It's not as bad as the GH-1 @ 1080 but it's still there.
 
Pepster said:
Check out this 5D2 vs GH1 comparison posted to VIMEO today:

5D2 version
http://vimeo.com/5623230

GH1 version
http://vimeo.com/5623066
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For that twilight shot, you could have taken the GH1 down to something like 1/10 of a second shutter and it would have been even smoother (less noise) than the 5D2 and the reduced frame rate would not have adversely affected the shot since there is almost no movement in the frame anyway. If that was done, I think the GH1 would have actually beaten the 5D2. The daylight shots, to me, looked better on the GH1. DOF not quite as shallow but I see more moire artifacts in the roofs of the buildings just to the right of center on the 5D2.

BTW, I've owned both the 5D2 and GH1 so I have no allegiance to either one. Not a fan boy here. I find in many cases, the features on the GH1 (like the slow shutter capability) can actually help the GH1 produce better video in some cases. To me, in this test, both cameras should have been used to their maximum capabilities and on the GH1, a slow shutter would have been awesome on that twilight shot.

Finally, on DOF, shallow DOF is something that should be used creatively and sparingly and is often overused these days with people showing off how shallow they can make a shot with brand XYZ dSLR. Most of the videos you see these days involve people taking shots with the shallowest DOF and then making music videos out of them. It's a fad that will cool off over time. The GH1's DOF can be as shallow as you need and you often don't need a DOF so shallow that it blurs the background to the point that you can't even tell what is in the background. Your eyes don't have DOF that shallow, so in a sense it is "unnatural" and should be used sparingly for effect in certain scenes where the subject really NEEDS that much isolation. Read... not as often as people are using it these days.

Mike
 
mikeydvx said:
Finally, on DOF, shallow DOF is something that should be used creatively and sparingly and is often overused these days with people showing off how shallow they can make a shot with brand XYZ dSLR. Most of the videos you see these days involve people taking shots with the shallowest DOF and then making music videos out of them. It's a fad that will cool off over time. The GH1's DOF can be as shallow as you need and you often don't need a DOF so shallow that it blurs the background to the point that you can't even tell what is in the background. Your eyes don't have DOF that shallow, so in a sense it is "unnatural" and should be used sparingly for effect in certain scenes where the subject really NEEDS that much isolation. Read... not as often as people are using it these days.

Mike
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Well said... Couldn't agree more.
 
commanderspike said:
This comparison is a joke!

Well... first of all, the GH1 clip this guy uploaded to Vimeo was in 720p whilst the 5D MII is full HD 1080.

Secondly... there is no way in hell he has handled the GH1 video properly. The compression artefacts are awful. It's as if he's used a bit rate designed for video streaming to a mobile phone, whilst the 5D footage is crystal clear!!!

I have tried my footage raw from the camera via a mini HDMI cable to my 50 inch plasma. It doesn't have any visible compression artefacts apart from when you shoot badly shot footage with lots of mud.

There is no way what you saw on that screen of yours did the GH1 justice. I don't know why this comparison was engineered in such a way to cripple the GH1's footage. It's such an unfair flatteringly biased comparison of the 5D it looks like it was put there by Canon themselves!
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You might be right. I am only reporting on what I am seeing.

I can see the compression contours in the clouds and flashing blocks on the darker areas on the lower LHS, from 0:0 to 0:12, when viewed on my 14"
Toshiba laptop (and It looks very bad when viewed on 50" Plasma @ 2m)

This clip looks a whole lot better
http://vimeo.com/5179973

but, but...
Note the almost complete lack of detail in the dark buildings in @ 0:57 and @ 1:42. I have noticed this effect on the other GH1 night scene shots I have seen.
This low light 'blurr' may be Panasonic's attempt 'smooth' out low light noise. These effects are clearly visible on a 50" Plasma and on a 14" Laptop.

No pixel peeping here.

Can some one prove prove otherwise - ie another clip ?
 
Pepster said:
Can some one prove prove otherwise - ie another clip ?
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Prove to you what?

Why? Who needs to prove this to you?

If it's important to you, go prove it all by yourself.
Your arrogance is annoying that you feel that people need to justify their like for the GH1, to you.

If the GH1 is acceptable, and works for GH1 owners; then that's' all the proof you need and your going to get.

However I will show you how the GH1 stands up, and betters a much more expensive camera the HPX170 in core image resolution and dynamic range... Down load the 720P file....

http://vimeo.com/5373927





.
Michael Pappas
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Anamorphic DSLR Lens Test Images... links:
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Facebook & Myspace:
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PappasArts said:
Prove to you what?

Why? Who needs to prove this to you?

If it's important to you, go prove it all by yourself.
Your arrogance is annoying that you feel that people need to justify their like for the GH1, to you.

If the GH1 is acceptable, and works for GH1 owners; then that's' all the proof you need and your going to get.

However I will show you how the GH1 stands up, and betters a much more expensive camera the HPX170... Down load the 720P file....

http://vimeo.com/5373927
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Thanks for the link - that clip clearly shows that the HPX170 is inferior to the GH1. The foliage in the trees looks terrible on the HPX170.

But, back on topic.

Acrespo started this tread with the question "I am looking to purchase a new DSLR that shoots video. I have narrowed my search to GH1 and the Mark II. The camera will be used for video purposes. Which way should I roll with?"

Acrespo deserves an honest answer.

Unless someone can post a link showing other wise, my answer will have to be;

If you want image quality, buy the MarkII.

If you are prepared to sacrifice image quality to save a few bucks, the GH1 might suit your needs.

But remember, garbage in = garbage out. ie, once taken you are stuck with this footage for good.

The 5D2 will give you a Red One look (or better) for 1/10th of the cost of the red one.

BTW - Here is an interesting comparison between the Red One and the 5D2:
http://www.vimeo.com/5179976
Looks like low light is not RedOne's forte either.
 
It's been said before, but it can't be emphasized enough:

A Canon 5D Mark II body alone sells for 2-3 times as much as what a Panasonic DMC-GH1 body alone sells for. (The GH1 is available in Japan in a body-only configuration, so it depends on how you calculate exchange rates and guessing what Panasonic might charge for a GH1 body elsewhere. It's generally agreed that the Lumix Vario HD 14-140mm "video-ready" lens is worth approx. $900-1,000 give or take.)

So, of course there are things the 5DM2 can do that the GH1 can't. In fact, you'd be an idiot to buy a 5DM2 if this weren't true!

It may be arguable that there are a few exceptions to this "rule", in either direction, maybe, but jeez, give it a rest, people. Thank you. :smile:
 
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Kholi said:
For the record, there is also mud in MKii footage when panning, especially in bright situations. It's not as bad as the GH-1 @ 1080 but it's still there.
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Thank you...I kept mentioning this in other threads....but no one paid attention. It's an AVCHD with no B-frame thing. The 5Dll fairs better because it countered this with a higher bit rate....but it is still very much there.
 
Indeed, you'd expect the 5D to have a cleaner image and larger sensor for that price. I also hear it's quite a handy stills camera. But it's negatives far outway the benfits, at least for me.

- That price :(
- Mirror box :shocked:
- Bulk and size
- Kit lens is only F4 :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)
- No AF while recording and a rubbish live-view contrast detect AF system.
- No AVCHD, tiny recording length limit per clip
- Awful to edit

I might stop here. But there is more:

- That price
- Lens adaptability. There are pros and cons here. Great for wide lenses but in turn the large sensor shows up even the slightest lens issues horrifically especially at the edge of the frame. There is not a chance in hell you'll be using 16mm c-mounts with the 5D!
- No continuous iris
- The screen doesn't flip out and point up at you when you're using a tripod, or ever in fact.
- Obviously you can't look view the optical viewfinder whilst recording
- Proper full frame capable lenses are awesomely expensive. No bargain Zeiss Contax lenses to be had here if you don't want vignetting.
- No 24p, 60p or 720p or for that matter much in the way of manual control compared to the GH1
- Body only comes in black. :nads:
- Poor built in mic
- No built in flash.
- Did I mention the price?

Okay I admit it. There is a certain amount of me justifying my commitment to the GH1 here. The 5D is still a great camera. It's just that for all those down sides, there are not enough upsides to trump the GH1 when you consider that the GH1 costs less than half as much money.
 
mikeydvx said:
For that......
Mike
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Man...WELL SAID. I got to the point of hating to se these very shallow DOF videos....so unprofessional. I love when it's used sparingly and not to strong...just enough to where you don't even notice it.
 
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