GH1 or HMC40?

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edoubleu

Member
I was wondering what some of you thought would be a better choice for me between the GH1 and HMC40. I have been waiting for some work projects to start that necessitate a better camera, and now that time is upon us. My needs are primarily interview work and training videos in a controlled office environment, but I'd also like to run and gun at sporting events and shoot some great home videos. I prefer a super simple work flow and a smaller size for portability. I considered the 170, but felt it was a little too large, and the HM100 JVC which sounded perfect in many ways, but there are too many shortcomings to justify the price (especially when one can get the superior 170 for the same price!).

Do any of you with the GH1 think it is usable for run and gun? I picture pulling it out at the beach, shooting some great stills, then grabbing some beautiful video. But, I noticed on some other posts here that people consider DSLR's in general slightly inferior to a video camera for things like shooting snowboarding, for example. I also picture bringing just the HMC40 and getting stills and video, but again would appreciate hearing if the stills are worthy from this camera. Thanks for any advice!
 
HMC40. Period.

HDSLRs are great for some things, but not for the situations you're talking about. Run-and-gun is a challenge (but do-able) with the GH1 and 7D. For interviews, audio on the HMC40 (with XLR adapter) will make life much easier than recording sound with a GH1 (via a Zoom H4n, etc.).

If it were me, and I could only have one, I'd choose the HMC40.
 
If you have an equal passion for stills and videos, get a GH1.
If your shooting in mostly low-light situations, get a GH1.
If you need a shallow depth of field, get a GH1.

For everything else, get an HMC40. It has a far superior codec so if your shooting in places that has good lighting, the picture quality of the HMC40 will destroy the GH1. It also have much better video modes such as fully native 1080 24p in which you don't need to remove pull down.

I think you'd be better off with the HMC40 but have you ever thought about getting both? Even if you buy the XLR attachment for the HMC40, the total would still be lower than an HPX170. They complement each other.
I own a GH1 myself and I wish I can get an HMC40.
 
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Camera Expert said:
I think you'd be better off with the HMC40 but have you ever thought about getting both? Even if you buy the XLR attachment for the HMC40, the total would still be lower than an HPX170. They complement each other.
I own a GH1 myself and I wish I can get an HMC40.
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Funny you asked that. Right after I posted my question it occurred to me that if I was considering spending $3500 or so on the 170 I could have both the HMC40 and the GH1 for the same $. I will likely get the HMC40 first, as yours and the other responses suggest, and then add the GH1 if I still see the need. I imagine I'll be quite satisfied with the 40, it's just that the DOF sounds so sweet on the GH1!
 
The DOF is sweet, and the light sensitivity issues of the 40 mean that you may indeed need something additional. For outdoors work the 40 is great, but indoors it demands light. It's about 50 to 64 ISO.
 
People report that 18db gain is the limit on the HMC40, resulting in an effective 400 ISO. My experience on the GH1 is a that 800 is the limit in contrasty situations. But the lens on the HMC40 is more than two stops faster than the stock lenses GH1 lens. So with stock it appears that the HMC is equal to or faster than the GH1. Barry?

I use a f1.4 lens for low light to give the GH1 a one or two stop advantage over the hmc. However you must manually focus which does not always work in run and gun. Barry you have both so any thoughts?

I am considering a hmc 40 or 150 simply because audio is too hard in run and gun situations on the GH1. But I love the shallow DOF you will never get with the hmc. So I am also torn.
 
I wouldn't want to use the HMC40 at 12dB. I think 12 is the farthest any rational person would want to go. 18 is way too much for my taste. I think 9 or 6 is a more rational limit.

And, at that, it's rather slow. Very slow. 9 dB would put it at about 200 ISO, with some noise.

The stock lens on the GH1 is way way slow. The HMC40's lens is faster, yes -- but two things work against that comparison: one is that the HMC40 (like every video camera) loses f-stop as you zoom in, and two is that you can get a fifty-dollar lens for the GH1 that will dramatically improve its f-stop (depending on the focal length you want; I of course am referencing a 50mm f/1.4 lens).
 
Barry thanks for the clarification on hmc gain limit. However, the OP wants to carry a small rig to shoot oportunistically. My personal experience is that I have to use a shoulder brace to get steady shots with low light lenses. Since the GH1 has no in body stablization I cannot just add a lens, I also have to add stabilization of some sort and it seems as if the OP has not considered this. IN body stabilization tops my wish list for the next GH1 upgrade. On lens stabilization is not optimal for legacy lens use for video. The problem is that only the 14-140 is really stabilized for video.
 
GH1 + HDC-TM300 + Zoom H4n could be a good combo for edoubleu.

Skipping the HMC40 for the TM300 should leave money for a Canon or Nikon lens adapter and some second hand manual lenses. Possibly replace the TM300 with a Canon Legria HF S10 for slightly better low light but the manual ring at the front of the lens on the Panasonic makes for easier handling during shooting. Where sound is really critical a separate sound device makes a world of difference compared to any onboard audio, especially if a second guy can handle it without being tethered to the camera.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/camcorders/review/2009/05/23/Panasonic-HDC-TM300/p1

http://www.trustedreviews.com/camcorders/review/2009/03/21/Canon-LEGRIA-HF-S10/p1

Use the GH1 for close-ups in the interview situations and the camcorder for a simultaneous wide shot. That will make it easier to shorten down interviews without jump cuts or fades/wipes and clients will love the 'movie look' of the close-ups. Plus the camcorder will work pretty nicely on a simple inexpensive stabilizer such as the Hague Mini Motion-Cam.

http://cameragrip.co.uk/acatalog/info_263.html

In-body or lens stabilization is good for stills but those in combo with long GOP encoding can create some truly strange twitchiness in the footage, it's really better to get the whole camera steady instead. A simple chest brace such as this Manfrotto works very well with a light camera such as the GH1. I use mine a lot.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...Bogen_Imaging_361_361_Shoulder_Brace_for.html

Of course showing up with 2 consumer cameras can throw off clients so that has to be considered for the above. It's a matter of what kind of relationship one got with them and if you can show off good looking results. Just throwing out some ideas outside of the box here :)
 
philiplipetz said:
Barry thanks for the clarification on hmc gain limit. However, the OP wants to carry a small rig to shoot oportunistically. My personal experience is that I have to use a shoulder brace to get steady shots with low light lenses. Since the GH1 has no in body stablization I cannot just add a lens, I also have to add stabilization of some sort and it seems as if the OP has not considered this. IN body stabilization tops my wish list for the next GH1 upgrade. On lens stabilization is not optimal for legacy lens use for video. The problem is that only the 14-140 is really stabilized for video.
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With no experience with a dslr that records video, I was wondering what some of the factors were that made it less capable than a video camera. Sounds like stabilization is on of them on the GH1. Thanks for the heads up on this.
 
Martti Ekstrand said:
GH1 + HDC-TM300 + Zoom H4n could be a good combo for edoubleu.

Of course showing up with 2 consumer cameras can throw off clients so that has to be considered for the above. It's a matter of what kind of relationship one got with them and if you can show off good looking results. Just throwing out some ideas outside of the box here :)
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I really appreciate the ideas! Doing what you suggest certainly is a possibility. I still want to choose wisely on the main camera I'll have with me most of the time. We often do things like attend surf contests for our son, and aside from a camera, I'm lugging all the other usual stuff like chairs and coolers. Having to have a full kit of braces, lenses, etc. is of course much more advantageous, but there are times like these I want to leave them home.

Whereas this all in one camera does appear to be something other than a dslr for now, I'm getting a little worried now about the 40. It sounds like it is more limited than I thought in low light. Barry, you sound especially specific about it. Sure, I can light it up 99% of the time I am shooting indoors, and all our business related work is in a controlled, lit environment, but does anyone think I should take one last look at something other than the 40 - such as the 170, for a combination of the best elements of the GH! and the HMC40?

Thanks again.
 
Having listed the limitations of the GH1, now let me state that I love it. If you are willing to make the effort this is the cheapest solution to cinema-like results. However, it is a not a good point and shoot camera. For that get a dedicated video cam. But with effort the same dollars spent on the GH1 will give better results.
 
I've been mulling over a similar question for the past month. HMC40 or D7. I'm a one man show and having to tool around with lenses & audio while my subjects wait for me to set up my rig is a real deal killer. Sure it'd be nice to have a team of folks to do sound, figure out if I'm actually in focus and realize that every 12 minutes I've gotta hit the record button again but it's just me. Add in the rig to hold her steady, the sound capture device, a lens - for D7 I'm told I'll need to throw down $700 for a semi decent lens - you've got to spend a lot more so I went with the HMC40 but I'll probably go with a D7 in the near future but my main camera is the HMC40 for now. Don't think in terms of camera monogamy here, you can get both if you've got the lolly!

I just sold an HV30 after owning it for a year and the camera ended up costing me $130! As long as you don't get really expensive / esoteric camera gear there is always a good second hand market for our kit.

Of course you should never buy any gear until you have the clients / business to pay for it ;)
 
thabo said:
I've been mulling over a similar question for the past month. HMC40 or D7. I'm a one man show and having to tool around with lenses & audio while my subjects wait for me to set up my rig is a real deal killer. Sure it'd be nice to have a team of folks to do sound, figure out if I'm actually in focus and realize that every 12 minutes I've gotta hit the record button again but it's just me. Add in the rig to hold her steady, the sound capture device, a lens - for D7 I'm told I'll need to throw down $700 for a semi decent lens - you've got to spend a lot more so I went with the HMC40 but I'll probably go with a D7 in the near future but my main camera is the HMC40 for now. Don't think in terms of camera monogamy here, you can get both if you've got the lolly!

I just sold an HV30 after owning it for a year and the camera ended up costing me $130! As long as you don't get really expensive / esoteric camera gear there is always a good second hand market for our kit.

Of course you should never buy any gear until you have the clients / business to pay for it ;)
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So, how do you like your HMC40? Most seem to love it.
 
My thoughts:

HMC 40: much easier to work with

GH 1: your hair will turn grey within 3 months and you may start to suffer from heart problems but the image quality is suberb.

(of course I'm joking about the grey hair and the heart problems - you'll just need time to get used to shooting with the GH1, but after that, still, the HMC 40 will be easier to work with - but I, personally, we'll never use an ordinary camcorder again, I'm hooked to DSLR filming)
 
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