GH1 good enough for main wedding cam (with HMC150)

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tikigod19

Well-known member
ok guys this is quite an important thread to me, I'd really appreciate your input.
I've just bought a HMC151 (in the UK) and I shoot weddings with occasional music videos/plays etc.

I wanted a proper camcorder with XLR inputs and a much more point and shoot type of thing for when narrow DOF isnt needed and when I film a 2 cam wedding I'd like to give this cam to the less experienced operator. This is where hopefully the HMC151 will come in.

I now need to decide whether to go with GH1 (hacked) as my main cam but I'm reluctant to make the jump for the reasons I'll mention in this thread.

Ok things that I like - 1920 resolution if i ever need it (I'm used to 1440 with FX1), SD card workflow and 720p 50fps for smooth slow mo. Obviously the GH1 would partner the HMC151 well here.

The things I'm concerned about and would love your thoughts on:

ND filters - I know that via a matte box you can add ND filters for use in bright sunlight. If I didnt mind ramping up the shutter speed (which is something I've done deliberately in the past and I quite liked the look for fast moving action) would I be able to film in the brightest of sunlight without having to stop down much lower (higher numerically) than say f8? I basically want to confirm that if I run outside in a hurry with no ND filters to hand, will I be able to get useable footage or will the image be too bright or indeed just plain horrible if I ramp the shutter right up and higher the F stop number to even f8.

Weight - The GH1 is light... very light. I've heard about 'rails' to add weight and support things like matte boxes but I know nothing about them. Are these commonly used by people using the Gh1 as a main cam?

No ISO change whilst recording - this is the only real unavoidable disadvantage from what I understand and I've got all of the information on this in a previous thread, but it is a consideration when choosing a main cam for me.

Battery life - I did some filming with my Gh1 the other day and the battery lasted about 30 mins! I'm sure it said fully charged when I picked it up but i was obviously wrong (or I have a faulty battery) what kind of battery life can I expect with the screen open while recording 720p video?

Audio - I only use live sound during the ceremony, speeches and guests messages. I have a sennheiser ME66 and a wireless kit. I also have a beachtek XLR to 3.5mm adapter. Could I use the beachtek mounted to the bottom of the GH1 and then mount the wireless to this along with a shotgun mic (presumably I;d have to sell the ME66 and buy another as the ME66 is too long for such a small cam, What shotgun do you guys use?) What autio limitations are there compared to what I'm used to... I've read there is no manual control is this right?

Glass - I like the idea of the autofocus on the 14-140 but I dont use any autofocus at the moment and because this lens is so slow I'd probably end up binning it. Other lenses I have at the moment are:

canon 50mm 1.4
sigma 10-20 f4-5.6
tamron 28-70 f2.8
panasonic 20mm 1.7

I expect to try to sell the 14-140 when the AF100 is released, OR keep it for the longer zoom ranges. I can't see myself using longer than 140 on a crop body, however inside a dark church its useless.

I was considering selling the tamron 28-70 and getting the tamron 17-50 2.8 instead as every time I put on the 28-70 I'm surprised how tight it is. (I dont know why I'm surprised, I always had this in my head as my practical take anywhere lens but its really not as practical as I thought)

So my choice is really:

1) take the plunge and use the Gh1 as a main cam with the HMC151 as 2nd cam either unmanned or manned by my less experienced operator.

2) buy another HMC151 and use both and then switch to the GH1 when I have the time/control/confidence to use it.. i.e in the morning when I have plenty of time, or when the narrow dof is really a benefit like glidecam shots of the shoes, etc

3) Take suggestions as an alternative main cam. I love the narrow DOF but I'm worried I'm not confident enough with it which is why I put my plans to buy an AF101 on hold.

Oh and I also have a canon 60d which shoots 720p 50fps also so this would be my spare cam. I really bought this for photography only with the option of video there if needed.

Ok sorry this is so long but like I said this is an important thread to me as with time running out until the wedding season I'm going to have alot of accessories to buy if I'm using the GH1 and IF I get reassurance and feel confidence to use it as a main cam, a list of recommended accessories would be my next point!

Many thanks in advance
 
You said a lot, but I'll distill my advice to the main pointers I've learned from using my GH1 for wedding shoots:

1) the GH1 will not operate as smoothly and swiftly as a dedicated camcorder no matter how many accessories you deck it out with. Keep in mind too that each piece of your shooting package has a chance of failing - keep your kit as simple and uncomplicated as possible to ward off failure either by equipment or operator. ND filters w/ a matte box? Hmm, I'd use a Cokin P filter holder instead - no need for rails. And cheaper. Wireless mics? Nope, too iffy with all the cellular interference nowadays. I use the Olympus digital voice recorder method for double system sound, at least one inside the jacket pocket of the groom with a lav mic attached (this should be able to cover the bride and official as well). Another could be placed near a loudspeaker or the lectern to get sound of the other speakers.
2) the GH1 will not operate in run-and-gun situations as well as a camcorder (although the skill of the operator plays a big hand in this aspect). Rely on your HMC 151 when the shot has to be moving a lot.
3) Limit the GH1 to shooting static scenes like the couple at the altar, where the shallow DOF is desirable and focus pulls won't be as demanding. You can use it for action, but depending on your lens and your eyesight the focus pulling could be a challenge.
4) When shooting any key moments of the wedding event, use the GH1 close to the action and make sure the HMC 151 is backing it up (not shooting b-roll of smiling faces, get that later).
5) In regards to your plan of using a less experienced operator, from my own experience, all I can say is this: I wish I had used an unmanned tripod-mounted camera instead.

With all that said, the GH1 is very capable of being a main cam for a wedding shoot - it has for me. It just requires a different approach and preparation than using a camcorder. But the quality of the footage makes it worth the extra effort.

Also, one fully charged battery should last an entire average length wedding ceremony if you use a combination of the lcd and evf. I think at one bar I close the lcd and use the evf, this usually gets me to the end of the ceremony. To be safe, just use the evf as much as you can.
 
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This is a very interesting thread. I already own a Panasonic HMC-151E and my GH2 arrived yesterday. It is quite convenient to have a smaller, less conspicuous camera in parallel with the HMC. If the HMC or separate audio recorder is doing the sound, the possibility of the GH2 doing just filming is very attractive. My task over the holiday season is to match the appearance between the two as much as possible - colour, gamma and sharpness. If I crack it, I will share my observations the forum. The beauty of the HMC -151E is that you can switch it to 24fps, the same as the GH2, if you set the 60Hz timebase option rather than the 50Hz setting.
 
htinla, which cokin p filter holder is comptible with the gh1? There seems to be loads on their website.
So when used, what are rails actually for? I thought most people who shot video on DSLR used them for stability and extra weight but I'm clearly wrong!

yes i currently use a Zoom H1 recorder with audio technika mic in the grooms pocket but the sound from my sennheiser wireless is much nicer. I suppose I could put the wireless on the HMC151 if the distance isnt too great. I also put a 2nd one by a speaker and a 3rd on the lectern so I'm sort of already shooting the DSLR way in terms of audio which helps. You still use a shotgun on your GH1 right?

i REEEALLY hate the viewfinder on the GH1 so would prefer to not use it wherever possible! A church service in England is about an hour. i would have hoped and expected the battery to last longer than that so that is a kick in the teeth,

It sounds like when I'm at a 1 cam operator shoot then the HMC151 on a tripod and the Gh1 with a tripod plate over my shoulder would work well and I could interchange. however the issue appears on my most expensive package with 2 cam operators. Perhaps I'm best getting another HMC151 if I like it (it hasnt arrived yet) and then keeping the Gh1 on my shoulder. If I end up using the GH1 frequently then I can sell the 2nd GH1 or keep it as a spare.

Thats the easy way out but I'm trying to avoid that if at all possible as I know I'll love the DSLR look and dont want to buy another HMC151 only for a short time!

cwoodhou, does the GH1 UK model do 24fps as well? I forgot that the HMC151 is switchable so I suppose even in the UK, shooting 720 24p and 720 59fps is still a good idea if both cameras can do it?
 
hi (the hmc151 will be with you soon)

just a few thoughts.....

i wouldnt use a glidecam for narrow dof shots. unless you have a wireless follow focus (expensive) you'll be totally guessing on focus most of the time - better to stop down & go wide angle & get things in focus, even use auto focus if necessary. the hmc151 may be better for these shots though obviously much heavier - depends on which glidecam/steadicam device you have

there are better shotgun mics than the me66 for less money - the rode ntg1/2 for example, or at 897 - the rode ntg3 is a bigger step up in quality, probably best value for pro quality sound but as with all shotgun mics, it works better outside, indoors a hyper cardioid would be better most of the time. Having said that, the ntg3 works indoors better than most shotguns. Check out the audio forum for more info

rails are used for mounting matte box, follow focus etc to camera
a cheaper option - instead of mattebox & nd filters etc it may be easier & quicker to use something like a fader nd on the lens of the gh1 for outside in decent light - though they can make the image a bit soft on lenses over 50mm

the tamron 17-50 2.8 is probably a more useful all rounder lens than 24-70mm on a gh1, nikon mount will allow you to use an adaptor that can control aperture. Having said that you also have a canon 60d so you may want to get the canon fit - but then you will have to use it aperture wide open on the gh1 (with adaptor) unless you get the soon to be released birger mount (£585 though i think )

be careful using 1/60 shutter in the uk, you will likely get flickering under 50hz flourescent lighting

the battery on gh1 lasts me a long time but then i really like using the viewfinder, & it gives me a more stable shot when hand held resting up against my face - struggle to get focus using the low res lcd screen & its pretty much unusable in sunlight

i would use the hmc151 as main camera & wide shots, & the gh1 for those nice dof shots, but the hmc will give you a solid all round shot that you can trust will look ok, the gh1 is great when you have the time to compose & control your shot but the hmc is so much easier to use for anything unpredictable, especially with easier focus & exposure control
 
Yeah sorry I meant glidetrack narrow dof shots not glidecam. I'd go wide aperture for glidecam unless I have forever to practise and recompose.

That's a right pain about the nikon version of the tamron will adjust aperture and the canon won't. Not much I can do to use it with the canon as well. Maybe I'll buy the nikon mount and adapter just for use on the gh1 but this is something I failed to find out during my research before buying the 60d..

I always wanted to use the gh1 when it suits but predominantly film on proper camcorder so maybe 2 hmc151's and the gh1 is the solution.. A £2400 more expensive than originally planned solution..
 
Cokin P filter holders attach directly to the lens. To be flexible, buy the size that would fit your largest lens and use step-down rings to fit onto your smaller lenses. Matteboxes w/ rails are nice, but can slow things down like lens changes, make your camera heavier and less compact, and can draw too much curious attention - not good when you want your subjects to be natural (and think of how many more times someone will come up to you to ask questions about your fancy setup - there's always at least one at every wedding!). As much as possible, I like to appear as just another wedding photog and not a documentary filmmaker, and IMO matteboxes and rails don't help in that regard.

As far as setting up the GH1 for quick transitioning between tripod and handheld shooting, the number of available options is huge, but your personal preference and budget will dictate your choices. I get by mounting my GH1 to an old Stroboframe flash bracket which allows me to affix a battery-operated led video light to where the flash would normally be (or you could attach a shotgun mic instead. I use the hot-shoe mounted mic designed for the GH1, so I can have that on top of my camera and the light on the bracket all at once). To the Stroboframe, I attached a tripod quick-release shoe. This setup allows me to move my camera from tripod to handheld very easily while remaining relatively compact. I also have a Spiderbrace w/ qr mount that I can mount this setup onto for added stability and comfort on the fly.

Seems like you have audio covered well, so moving on...

A fully charged GH1 battery should last for at least one hour w/ lcd on the entire time. The weddings I've done are like an hour and twenty minutes long (too many long-winded priests and musical interludes here I guess) so I've had to use the evf extensively. Don't worry if you need to do a quick battery change towards the end of a ceremony when all the important moments have already occured (best time to change is when the priest is talking, or the lull after someone finishes singing). I give a lot of credit to anybody who uses a Canon DSLR as a main cam on a wedding shoot - how do they deal with shooting in 12 minute intervals anyway?

I think you'll do fine using one GH1 and an HMC 151. You'll be less apprehensive to rely on the GH1 once you've gotten your setup to your liking and feel completely comfortable operating it, adjusting your shooting style to deal with its strengths and weaknesses. Actually, I'd worry more about getting a competent second cam operator who I know will have my back the entire time.
 
Thanks for your reply.

Yes inconspicuous is good for me. Only considered matte box and rails as it seems everyone uses them but I'm happy to go without.

In a bit confused about your stroboframe set up. It's just a way of getting a second shoe connection for your light as well as mic or is it to help hand held also?

Don't think I'd be as brave as to go hand held with the gh1. I don't even do that with the fx1. The only way I intend to do that is with a glidecam or merlin.

Which mic do you use with your gh1? I'm going to research all of these suggestions and get one that'll hopefully work for gh1 and hmc151.

I just did some tests with 2.8 aperture and it wouldn't be the end of the world (until I'm in bright sunlight I guess) not be able to stop down the canon version of the tamron. If I find I use the gh1 more and am happy with the lens I'd sell it and buy the nikon with mount or more likely just the birger mount.

This 1 hr battery issue is a big issue for me however. What's life like using EVF only?
 
I use the Stroboframe because it makes it easier to grab the small GH1, gets one hand off the camera which helps with stability when handheld, and gives me that extra hot shoe position which places the light at an ideal height to avoid the straight-on flashlight look.

I use the DMW MS-1 mic which works well enough for me. There are better mics of course, but having to use beachteks and/or 3.5 to 2.5mm plug adapters (they way they stick out of that tiny input scares me) introduces too many variables for my comfort level. As long as I get good sound of the vows and key speeches (using the voice recorders or sound from a better-positioned b-cam), then I can deal with all the other moments sounding just okay (this is where those musical montages help cover for mediocre production sound). A more complex sound setup requires more attention from you which might distract you from the images. Find the balance point between quality, usability, reliability, and necessity and know that there is a point of diminishing returns that you'll reach quickly, especially if your mic sound will be recorded into the GH1 at 192kbps compressed. It seems to me that you already have your hands full with all those Zoom recorders planted all over the place, so do yourself a favor and keep your camera's mic system simple.

If you plan on having an uncut shot that follows the couple out of the church into bright daylight, then you'll need a lens that you can stop down. Personally, I don't like the idea of using a lens that i can't stop down, get a lens whose aperture you can use, otherwise you'll have to explain to the couple why the shot of them joyously exiting the church with rice showering down on them was blown - you don't want to go there! Play it safe and use an appropriate lens.

I'm near-sighted so using the evf is actually better for me when focusing, but I do prefer the freedom and comfort of peripheral vision that the lcd gives me. Like I said before, you should be able to use the lcd the entire time for a one hour ceremony.
 
I didn't realise the gh1 had a 2.5mm input. My beachtek will need the adapter in that case. When I'm shooting on my own I like using the beachtek to capture wireless in one channel and shotgun in the other therefore I think I'd end up keeping it to use for ceremony only. When that's over u can remove the wireless and just use the shotgun.

Now I use the zooms with lav mic on each speaker for speeches I don't really need fantastic quality sound from the shotgun so if I went with gh1 I might find myself getting the DMW-MS1 just to capture ambient (90% not used) sound. If it's a decent mic I could even get a 2.5 to xlr adapter if they exist and use it with the beachtek for the ceremony too enabling me to sell the me66.

Is the DMW-MS1 uni-directional?

As I use tripods I don't do any follow shots like you mention but I do agree I should have a lens that can be stopped down IF I decide the gh1 is for me long term...

Appreciate your thought please keep them coming they're helping me out!
 
The DMW MS-1 is directional but not like a laser, it'll capture pretty much everything around it without a noticeable sweet spot. It mostly allows you to handle the camera without picking up the noise that the built-in mic usually catches. It also is switchable between mono and stereo when need be.
 
If you pointed it at a wedding speaker from say 10ft do you think it would isolate them enough? I rely on my me66 being directional when for example filming guests messages outside with a busy road behind me. You can really notice the difference when you turn to face the road
 
tikigod19 said:
If you pointed it at a wedding speaker from say 10ft do you think it would isolate them enough? I rely on my me66 being directional when for example filming guests messages outside with a busy road behind me. You can really notice the difference when you turn to face the road
Click to expand...

If you need that kind of sound-isolation, then you might want to stick with the me66 - the DMW MS-1 doesn't isolate sound like that - just not in the same class at all.
 
For me, there's only one reason to use the GH1 for weddings: The 20mm f1.7. Other than that, I'd much rather just have an HMC150. That being said, the 20mm f1.7 is not very useful for the ceremony, and while it's a great reception lens, there's no close-ups...during the first dance for example. It's one focal length for pretty much my entire reception video....with the exception pictures I take of the cake and crap like that, where I use the 45mm f2.8 macro.

But, you can shoot a wedding with anything, and learn to use what you got. I now shoot weddings with two GH1...and two 20mm f1.7, in addition to a few other Lumix M4/3 lenses. It's a challenge. It's not ideal. But when it comes to weddings...it all pays the same...no matter what you use. :D

I'd love to have an HMC150 for the ceremony...but I'd rather put the $$$ towards a new Jeep. GH1's are cheap as dirt...like my wedding videos.
 
I have been doing some comparisons of GH2 and HMC150. I first compared gamma slopes, using a stepwedge and then went on to match colour on a macbeth chart. In each case, custom white balance and careful exposure setting so that whites just got to 100%.

Some observations. If you use waveform monitor on FCP, you can 'see' the gamma slope by the relative steps of the staircase. In my crude comparisons using standard settings.

GH2 standard film setting has a straight line characteristic, Cinema was a simple depressed curve, dynamic was a S-curve and smooth was a humped curve. On the HMC, nothing really had a pronounced S-curve, but B press had some highlight roll-off. The closest match, gamma wise was HD Norm (HMC) to Cinema Film (GH2). The Cine D setting on the HMC had considerably greater range.

Taking the Cine Film setting on the GH2 and comparing the Macbeth chart with the various Matrix settings on the HMC produced reasonable match between to Norm1 (Cine was considerably more saturated). In FCP, applying 90% saturation (color corrector 3-way) to the GH2 file, matched better still. (I guess I could do that in the GH2). The issue is the GH2 does not reproduce the deep blue or purple with the same depth.

Incidentally - the Cine Matrix setting really was punchy - more so than the Dynamic film setting on the GH2. The GH2 couldn't come close to the green and blue intensity of the HMC.

My next investigation is to see is to mix the Cine D gamma with Norm Matrix and match that to the GH2, for outside shots with high contrast.
 
FWIW

Here's a typical poorly lit "small" chapel shot at the long end of the 14-140 (f5.8), 1/30th, ISO1600, 1080p converted to CFHD, "nostalgic" mode with all settings at "0":




Here's the exact same shot with the 20mm f1.7, from the same exact distance away:

 
Main Camming with the GH1

Main Camming with the GH1

My biggest concern with using the GH1 (GH13) as a main cam for any event video would be focus... unless of course the main cam is locked down. For run & gun stuff with alot of moving around, the autofocus doesn't perform well in low-light and manual focus can be a pain due to the low resolution of the LCD and EVF. It is moreso an issue if your delivering content in HD, as any not quite perfect focus will be more noticeable. I've used the FX1 and the GH13 as a primary camera and I feel much safer with the FX1... though the GH13 is nice for artsy focus pulls and whatnot.

Also, there's the issue of everyone asking me to stop and take their picture when I'm holding the GH1. Although decking the camera out with with a mic and shoulder rig and that might be avoidable.
 
swyzlstyx said:
FWIW

Here's a typical poorly lit "small" chapel shot at the long end of the 14-140 (f5.8), 1/30th, ISO1600, 1080p converted to CFHD, "nostalgic" mode with all settings at "0":




Here's the exact same shot with the 20mm f1.7, from the same exact distance away:

Click to expand...



The first third-party lens company to bring a line of high quality, fast, autofocusing zooms for the m4/3 market will reap a gold mine.
 
thanks for the sample images, the difference is remarkable. Luckily I won't be using the 14-140, I have a 28-75 2.8 which I'd use for ceremonies. Do you think 2.8 would be enough in most situations?

I'm now choosing between buying a second HMC151 and using the GH1 occasionally or making the jump and buying several extra batteries, ND filters, possibly a new directional mic (as I'm worried the ME66 is a bit big)

In bright sunlight what kind of shutter would I need to ramp up to in order to keep exposure if stuck on f2.8? Would it be impossible? I'm slightly put off by the fiddle of putting on and removing these ND filters when moving between bright and shade.

Also does anyone know the battery life with the LCD screen closed the whole time?

One other thing to consider/buy is memory cards. I've been put off of Transcend slightly so what would people recommend? I don't mind paying a bit extra for reliability but I know its impossible to get something 100% reliable. I've got an extreme III in the GH1 at the moment.

Thanks again to all for your continued views, its really helping me out.
 
I think the GH1 does exceptionally well as a main wedding cam. Usually I used my Canon XH-A1 for wedding stuff but I decided to try out the GH1 with stock lens for this shoot.

I guess the real "wedding" stuff starts at 1:30 when I begin to use my indislider mini deluxe for some dolly shots. Anything before that is just capturing the atmosphere leading up to the wedding.
 
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