GH1/GH13 vs. 60D

J

Jackson Miller

Well-known member
I recently sold my 5dii so I could get a cheaper dslr, have 60p, and have some more money for a rig and some other equipment I needed. When the GH1 was first hacked, a read a lot about it and thought that was what I would get, but then I read more about the 60d, and for a long time I was 100% set on it. THEN I thought more about the hack and how the lenses would be nice if I ever get a AF100, and how AF will work well for an upcoming project. NOW I am undecided again, and here is why. On paper the GH1 sounds great to me. However, I just don't think I like the footage. The colors look so dull and boring! That is always my first thought. Yes I know how to color correct. However I don't think I have ever seen GH1 footage that had the warm/rich feeling of the canon footage (both graded and not graded). Am I crazy? Can GH1 footage be corrected this way? I used to have a dvx and loved the colors. It had the "mojo" color that everyone loved. Well the GH1 doesn't have it. Jan said that the AF100 would have it but to me, they look way different (what I think the af100 will look like, and the GH1). So, will the hack provide enough information to correct in many ways, and as many ways as a 60d?

Also, there are other things besides the color. Obviously the 60d takes better pics, and is better in lowlight, and has a better selection of WIDE lenses, can use a monitor during rec., but then the Gh1 has sharper footage with no aliasing/moire and can AF.

Now I am kinda thinking everyone here will push me towards wanting a GH1. It just seems everyone who has a GH1 thinks it is VASTLY better than the canon's and people with the canon's think the exact opposite. Please tell me your opinions, ESPECIALLY those will both a canon DSLR and a GH1. Thanks. Please help me out because I have to buy asap.
 
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The Gh1 has multiple settings to choose from. However, it is being replaced by the GH2 in November. Some of the improvements are a new, larger sensor, live HDMI out during recording, increased bit rate for 1080 24p, and more. Check this site for the latest information from those with the inside track. Get the GH2 and share your lenses with the AF100 when the time comes.
 
Yes I am aware of that but it is my impression that the bitrate increase is minimal and not worth it. The GH13 still seems to be a much better camera but thank you.
 
Hi
I have had a GH1 for 10 months now and my wife has purchased a 60D for photo's.
I have added a quick test of both here http://www.vimeo.com/15495277 I would miss being able to film via the eye piece also the silent autofocus on the HD 14-140 lens is handy. I will be sticking with the GH1.
Cheers
Paul
 
Well you are posting in a GH-1 forum so yes, probably most will try to sway you to the "13" :)



GH-13 > Canon warm/rich feeling mojo . Add contrast and dial down gamma in post.


I've worked with both, and own 2 GH-13's. I love the amount of detail in the GH-13 using "lpowell's 40Mbps Reliability Patch", articulating LCD, small, light body - great price point.

However, I will say that if audio is important for your style of shooting, the GH1 is painful in terms of using the H4N then having to sync, etc. etc. (let's just say I'm an anxious owner of an 'AF100 pre-order' and that shipping date can't come soon enough!:beer:

Plus I don't like that there isn't a solid way to add a good eyepiece (EVF-with good eye cup/magnification)
 
Yes I suppose. What is your feeling regarding the amount the footage can be pushed as far as color correction?

Also you have to sync audio for all dslrs. Annoying as hell though. I am definitely going to use an on camera mic for my not so important projects.
 
I'm a proud gh13 owner but I say stick with 5dmkii. After havign shot with 5dmkii for the first time this past weekend I don't see why any person would choose a gh1 over it unless they're broke and can't afford proper monitoring/viewfinder for 5dmkii etc. I was shooting clean at 3200 ISO and up, my gh1 ruins scenes with atrocious banding at anything over 600 or even 400 iso
 
I think the average of around 21Mbps for 1080 24p is about equal to around 35Mbps of a hacked GH1 because it has b frames. Regardless of how high you set the bit rate of a hacked GH1, they'll most-likely be less noticeable moire and aliasing on the GH2 and significantly less banding in low light capabilities. I mean it's pretty clean at 3,200 ISO! With that said, I don't think native 24p on a hacked GH1 is very stable so your forced to record to 24p within 60i unlike the GH2 that offers pure 24p from the beginning so you wont have to convert the codec which adds a slight generation loss.

Other features includes significantly faster auto focusing especially in the photo mode and slow motion feature in which the camera records at 60p and gets slowed down to 24p. Last but not least, their the popular crop mode that everybody is raving about. 2.6x in 1080p/i and 3.9x in 720p. This should allow for significantly more telephoto range and not to mention the possibility of using lenses that were designed for smaller chips such as 1/3" or 1/2" mounts because of the extra crop factor.
 
Camera Expert said:
I think the average of around 21Mbps for 1080 24p is about equal to around 35Mbps of a hacked GH1 because it has b frames. Regardless of how high you set the bit rate of a hacked GH1, they'll most-likely be less noticeable moire and aliasing on the GH2 and significantly less banding in low light capabilities. I mean it's pretty clean at 3,200 ISO! With that said, I don't think native 24p on a hacked GH1 is very stable so your forced to record to 24p within 60i unlike the GH2 that offers pure 24p from the beginning so you wont have to convert the codec which adds a slight generation loss.

Other features includes significantly faster auto focusing especially in the photo mode and slow motion feature in which the camera records at 60p and gets slowed down to 24p. Last but not least, their the popular crop mode that everybody is raving about. 2.6x in 1080p/i and 3.9x in 720p. This should allow for significantly more telephoto range and not to mention the possibility of using lenses that were designed for smaller chips such as 1/3" or 1/2" mounts because of the extra crop factor.
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+1 for everything. +10000000 for the fact that people don't seem to understand that codec quality is not entirely bitrate dependent and that a high bitrate being needed (and it wouldn't be there if it wasn't needed) is actually the sign of a terribly inefficient and generally crummy codec implementation.
 
The body only GH2 is $200 less than the 60D and with a standard lens, it's still cheaper than the 60D.
GH2 Body only =$900
GH2 with lens = $1,000
60D body only = $1,100

It's only when you get the package that includes the 14-140 lens that it's $1,500. Keep in mind that it's a highly optimised lens and that the auto focusing for video is almost as fast as a top model consumer HD camcorder. I use that lens the most since it allows me to use the GH1 like a camcorder.

If the 7D and the GH1 is any indication, the GH2 should have significantly less heating issues. In fact it's hard to find any story online of the GH1 overheating. Another benefit is smaller size especially once you includes lenses. You obviously know about the fact that once you put an adapter you can fit almost any lens such as old 35mm lenses from Nikon and Canon.

It's obvious by reading my post that I'd get the GH2 and that's because I like shooting a lot of events and I cannot be bothered by a time limit and a chance of overheating for shooting as much as I've done with the GH1. I've used that thing like a camcorder since July of last year mostly in it's 720 60p mode and have never had any heating issues. Plus I can't wait to play with the slow motion and crop features. I was hoping the GH1 would have had that extra crop modes but it never happened. Better late than never even though I have to buy a new camera.
 
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my ranking

my ranking

my ranking is still :violin:

1. 5DII and GH13:love4:
2. 550D and GF1
3. 7D and 60D


The GH2 can not hold a candle to the GH13
 
adammada said:
my ranking is still :violin:

1. 5DII and GH13:love4:
2. 550D and GF1
3. 7D and 60D


The GH2 can not hold a candle to the GH13
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What are you basing that on?

GH2 has:
  • Better implemented codec with B-frames
  • Vastly improved low-light performance
  • ^Specifically less to no banding
  • Live HDMI output featuring little to no image quality degredation. (possible to monitor or even record. Record icon still displays in pre production models, you would need to crop out in post, but you can use an HDMI recorder. Also, LCD stays on when monitoring.)
  • Manual audio controls
  • Native 24p
  • More programmable function buttons
  • Faster auto-focus
  • Touch screen (feat touch auto-focus and touch focus assist.)
  • Higher resolution viewfinder
  • Arguably improved design
  • Telephoto crop mode
  • 60p sensor output (less rolling shutter)
  • realtime highlight zebra type feature
  • under and overcrank features
  • Improved interface (better menu design, GF1 style exposure scales [I think], and a focus distance scale.)
  • Higher megapixel photos with no compromise (in fact better) in low light performance
 
I have to agree with Ben_B that the GH2 is a nice improvement over GH1. With native 24p, and ext monitoring in the game now, I would not be surprised to see a lot more independent films being shot with the GH2

I hate to say this also, considering I am a proud user of the GH13 hack, but... Before the hack, the 1080p 17mb footage still looked pretty damn good. True, there was some break up in high detailed scenes, but I feel people have been over-exaggerating a little how "horrible" stock Gh1 1080p footage looked before the GH13 high bit rates came along.

With that in mind, the Gh2 shooting at 24mb (25% more information) with improved codec implementation and faster processor should look stunning and do very well in high detailed scenes.

If I was buying a dslr right now it would most certainly be the Gh2. The only real downside I have with the GH1/2 is the 2x crop factor. This is rarely an issue but when it is I am not a happy camper.
 
24MB means more information (greater than 25%), then 24PN provides 25% more than that, and then B-frames provide another 25% more than that. So that takes you to "30" then to "37.5." So we can unscientifically say that the GH2 will have a 220% "better" codec than the GH1, based on the idea of a ranking improvements. Very unscientific but I think my logic makes sense here.
 
Ben_B said:
What are you basing that on?
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Well - I have all and was able to test extensively. Also, I may know a pre-production model of the GH2 - it is worse than the GH13!
The GH2 due to the GH13 no purchase for me. And then I have also still the wonderful 5DII. . .
 
adammada said:
Well - I have all and was able to test extensively. Also, I may know a pre-production model of the GH2 - it is worse than the GH13!
The GH2 due to the GH13 no purchase for me. And then I have also still the wonderful 5DII. . .
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I assume you're referring to the codec as that's what the GH13 hack improved. Sooooo...you've pointed out one of 17 new features/improvements as being not as good....what about the other 16? How can you say it doesn't hold a candle to it? It holds a small star to it.
 
adammada said:
The movie image quality of the GH13 to me decisive. Against this fading of the remaining improvements to the new GH2, because for me is not important.
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The GH13 hack improved the codec. Prior to the hack the GH1 still resolved really great images, at a much higher resolution than the Canon DSLRs, etc. Codec quality is just one aspect of image quality. For example, the low-light performance on the GH2 is much better an than the GH1, and for all we know now the image could be higher resolution (won't know till we see res chart tests.) So your assertion that the GH13 has a better image quality is based on a few clips for pre-production GH2 models? Because the specs and the clips I've seen look quite good. Or are you simply misinterpreting the specs?
 
So I am going to buy a GH1 now because I have a project I must finish by the end of november. You did sell me on the GH2 however and I will likely upgrade once it is available. I found some very good deals on Gh1's which I believe are hackable. If not I may have to shoot without the hack and just wait for the Gh2. So I'll spend $950 now, and then sell the body in a month or two for 600-700? Whatever the going price is and then buy the GH2 body for 900-1000. If I hate the GH1, I can get a 60d after instead of the gh2.
 
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