GH1 / 5D Mark II Comparison

commanderspike

commanderspike

Carbonite Member
Had both for a week now so... some initial thoughts:

What surprises me most about the 5D is that it had the same mechanical shutter as the GH1, behind the mirror box. If Canon wanted to make a full-time live view camera like the GH1 all they have to add is an articulated screen, a purpose built lens for the fast contrast detect AF and get rid of the optical viewfinder.

Contrast detect AF is nothing special, all compact cameras have it. The trick is to make the lens quick enough in this mode. When the 5D focuses in live view AF mode it has to work with legacy lenses and so is slow.

What I appreciated most about the GH1 was it's size and weight. The 5D is a pain in the arse to carry around in comparison. I also like the way the GH1 looks. It looks tons better than the 5D, which is basically just a fancy 35mm SLR body. Don't forget the size of lenses too. If you want a IS, AF super zoom on the 5D it's gonna be twice the size as on the GH1. It's kit lens really is tiny for what it does. Don't forget the pancake lens on the GH1 too... amazing. Panasonic's 7-14mm wide lens is also incredibly small compared to a super wide on the 5D.

The mirror box in the 5D is a pain and so is the lack of rotatable screen. They could take out the mirror box and just use it in live view full time, make it cheaper and add a hinge to the screen - it'd be much more usable. I prefer an EVF for video anyway, and the mirror box just seems so 'yesterday'. It even gets caught on the back of my Contax Zeiss 28mm Distagon when taking photos. Incredibly annoying. In live view it's no problem as the GH1 style curtain shutter is used.

Image quality is tons better on the 5D. (Comparison videos coming soon). It's not just the lower noise and better low light performance, it's the colours and dynamic range. The roll off from highlights. The shadow detail. The resolution. It's all a lot better than the GH1. I also like that full frame gives me the 'proper' view from my lenses rather than for example my Zeiss 85mm turning into a telephoto. It's meant to be used as a portrait lens. On the 5D it's lovely. Banding is almost none-existent on the 5D compared to GH1. The codec is robust and less compressed. No mud but slightly more rolling shutter jello. Image quality is the 5D's only selling point over the GH1. The GH1 does EVERYTHING else better, and I include photography in that too - you can pick it up and get the shot every time. With the clunky and heavy 5D by the time you've activated live view and focussed or had to compose your shot through the view finder with the camera ALWAYS at eye level, the shot has gone. Outside the studio in real life the super zoom kit lens on the GH1 is an insanely underrated photographic tool because it comes in so handy for these 'life' or street situations. If you have to change lenses to get a shot, a lot of the time the scene has slipped away.

The controls on the GH1's body are much nicer to use than on the 5D. The 5D is clunky.

30p disturbs me more than I thought it would. It just looks SO smooth, like a computer arcade game. I dislike it. Hope they patch it to 24p, even if rolling shutter gets worse. Also intercutting 30p with any other footage from any other camera = nightmare. It's not true 29.976 and thus not a video standard.

Well... verdict is, I'd happily throw away everything that the 5D has if I could have it's sensor in the GH1's compact mirror less body.

I still think full frame is the way to go. And that high ISO performance (although it gets VERY noisy at 3200, it is supremely noiseless at 800 compared to the GH1), dynamic range also is much better. Colours look more lifelike on the 5D.
 
Last edited:
Interesting. I have to say, now I have a 7D and a GH1, I weirdly appreciate how good the GH1 is. I'm not saying one is better than the other - just that the GH1 is really an out and out consumer camera - but it really punches above its weight. And when you hear about the 7D overheating, you think about the GH1 happily shooting until the card is full with no problem - (albeit with an inferior codec)
 
Well put Commander!

That's sort of been my thought after shooting with both of them.

The other day I was walking back to my car and actually hand carrying my GH1 and another lens that I had been just storing in my pocket. I saw a really good shot that I wanted to get and was able to get it, fully manual (including focus) using just one hand (without dropping my other lens.) That was amazing to realize. Between the click adjust wheel and the fact that the thing was so light I could literally jam it into my face by the lens and turn the focus ring, I experienced, as I am sure many of us have, a GH1 swoon....and I'm not ashamed to say that...well maybe as a man, but not a photo/videographer.

Real quick on your last thing about ISO. Isn't the GH1's ISO 800 actually waaay more sensitive than the 5D's? I was under the impression that Panasonic used some different scale or something which has been screwing confused people over for awhile now...that said more sensitive doesn't mean better low light performance given the smaller sensor, but does mean better low light proportionally...just maybe more grain is explainable?
 
I see no benefit from the 7D apart from 24p, oh and 60p for slow mo. But in 60p the GH1 performs at it's best - codec stands up better and AF tracking is sweet.

Honestly you could take out the 5D Mark II's sensor, ribbon cable, circuit board and shutter mechanism and make a full frame GH1 :) It's so similar.

It's just a shame they had to put that damned mirror box in it along with a fixed screen and heavy chassis.
 
Ben_B said:
Well put Commander!

Real quick on your last thing about ISO. Isn't the GH1's ISO 800 actually waaay more sensitive than the 5D's? I was under the impression that Panasonic used some different scale or something which has been screwing confused people over for awhile now...that said more sensitive doesn't mean better low light performance given the smaller sensor, but does mean better low light proportionally...just maybe more grain is explainable?
Click to expand...

Thanks :) And I'll do some back to back tests at the same ISO tonight.

Really I can see myself coming back to the GH1 and selling the 5D instead. Although the 5D's image quality makes me swoon it's easy to forget how important the GH1's usability is.
 
The GH1's ISO at 400 is an effective 2500 on a sekonic, read this by Ilya friedman, its on hotrodcameras.com

I love the GH1, I had to choose between it and a 5DII, I've had 5D files on my pc they're incredible, but the features on the GH1 just made it so much more versatile.

If I get it right on cam I've been ok so far with the GH1. Definitely need fill lights if shooting for work, can't count on natural light with GH1, always have to 'help' it a little.
 
What CommanderSpike is implying,but not saying, is that the Canon 5-7d cameras are really superior studio cameras, but not good for run and gun documentary work. Besides the 12 minute time limit and the much bigger size-weight, to properly use these cameras you need eye piece adapters and/or external monitors, and a tripod.

Sure you can use them without these things but my tests on a 7d showed me that I could not shoot with dynamic camera movement, or even in unusual angles, without these things. You do not need viewing aids with the GH1. When you are done adding these things onto a portable rails setup you have a unwieldily rig that makes spontaneous candids impossible. While it will give great shots in studio setups, or in location studio setups, do you really want to carry all this stuff around in order to be able to capture the fleeting moment?

Then there is the cost. The GH1 with lens is $1500 US. The Canons are between $1700 and $2500 for the body. A good zoom lens, like the superb Canon 15-55 costs another $1000, and the external viewing devices cost at least $700, and a rails rig goes from $300 to $3000. To use prime lenses on a GH1 you can use virtually any old lens, including cheap Canon FD and wonderfully detailed PL lenses. The Canon lenses are much more expensive.
 
Last edited:
Video vs. Still IQ

Video vs. Still IQ

moved to separate thread in Canon 7d forum to compare video IQ orientation of GH1 to still IQ orientation of Canons.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=185784

The point of that post is that still IQ is very different than what is desirable in video. the GH1 is a so-so implementation of the video IQ and the Canons are good implementations of the still IQ - but is that what you want in video? Is GH1 film more watchable in feature length films? Is too much detail fatiguing and "video-like" not "film-like?" Still IQ images make for great pixel peeking but do they make great films? Obviously not since the great DPs use shallow DOF to obscure details, yet we all talk about the details in Canon images. Unless you go whole hog, with pull focus shallow DOF, is the Canon still the best solution? And if you do that then you have a very expensive rig that is very difficult to use and not very portable.
 
Last edited:
I'd add to that argument by saying that I noticed some of the 5D footage I made has an eerily noise free appearance, which makes the scene look even less like film and more like video than 30p does. Sometimes if you are shooting static scenes in video mode on the 5D you may as well have just taken a photo. A bit of noise is good, but not when it destroys detail.

If digital cameras had a much finer grain of noise and no noise reduction I'd be quite happy with that.

But again, where the 5D has the edge image wise is with colour and dynamic range. The low light performance is great but a fast lens with IS on a full frame sensor is VERY expensive.

The GH1 is a whole lot more practical and cost effective.
 
>but not good for run and gun documentary work.

This was done with the Gh1. I did not even had any plans to shoot there:

http://vimeo.com/6675237

Would be not possible with the 5D2/7D and its LCD.

But I love the 5D2 for stills :-)
 
To choose between the GH1's usability and the 5D's image quality is a tough choice.

Neither are ideal for run and gun. Both perform at their best in controlled, staged situations. Good for traditional narrative film making.

Both represent the start of a revolution and both badly need a imaging chip designed around a video core, not a stills one.

But the core technology is already there - CMOS sensor, curtain shutter, live view. It's just that these first generation large video / still CMOS sensors are just that - first generation.

Both cameras have compromises as large as their obvious benefits.

It depends what work you do. If it's studio based, and you need the best stills, the 5D's terrible usability as a video camera is not as big a factor.

But for me, just looking at these cameras side by side - the GH1 is by far the sexier option with more creative applications. It's a camera of the future.

Some other observations:

- GH1 has the more accurate white balance but sunset yellows and oranges come out with a green cast. The 5D has a much warmer image.
- The 5D has a exposure simulation mode in live view which is great - but when you record a movie in this mode it automatically adjusts exposure whilst recording even when set to full manual mode. Argghhh.
- The 5D eats batteries like hell, when used as a video camera. Live view and video take up tons of battery power on the 5D. The GH1 is much more economical. It's sensor and screen are smaller and more power efficient.
- The 5D shows no mercy to lenses. It shows up any shortcoming, anywhere in the frame.
- The 5D starts to look incredibly expensive when you search for a good all-rounder zoom lens with stabilisation.
- The rubber grip on the GH1's kit lens can be stretched and come loose - only fix for that is to get it replaced under warranty. I am not impressed with that, and neither am I impressed with the GH1's paint coating, which also comes off over a matter of months without the slightest provocation. Build sturdiness however, is excellent. The 5D is more delicate whilst the GH1 will much more likely survive a drop.
- The difference in size and weight between the pair is HUGE. It's a major factor. Don't forget it.
 
Last edited:
You'd need a hoodloupe or something similar to shoot that on a 7D or 5D2, but certainly doable.

Also the 7D is more than just an implantation of 24p over the 5D2. It's NTSC/PAL Switchable, so you've got 1080 24, 25, and 30p and 720 50/60p. The video from the 7D is more organic than the 5D2. 5D2 requires a lot of post work to give it a nice film look I would agree on that. I would need to try and add a bunch of grain to it.

7D has a lots less jello than the 5D2 from my experiences so far. Especially when propped on even the cheapest of monopods doing handheld work is easy.

The GH1 is definitely more user friendly and has a lot of advantages; however, saying the 7D is simply a 24p addition is pretty misleading.
 
filmbuff81 said:
You'd need a hoodloupe or something similar to shoot that on a 7D or 5D2, but certainly doable.

Also the 7D is more than just an implantation of 24p over the 5D2. It's NTSC/PAL Switchable, so you've got 1080 24, 25, and 30p and 720 50/60p. The video from the 7D is more organic than the 5D2. 5D2 requires a lot of post work to give it a nice film look I would agree on that. I would need to try and add a bunch of grain to it.

7D has a lots less jello than the 5D2 from my experiences so far. Especially when propped on even the cheapest of monopods doing handheld work is easy.

The GH1 is definitely more user friendly and has a lot of advantages; however, saying the 7D is simply a 24p addition is pretty misleading.
Click to expand...

That the 7D is PAL / NTSC switchable must be applauded. I love Canon's approach to the market. Panasonic's Japanese language-only domestic model is an unpleasant strategy toward customers smart enough to buy from regions where the camera isn't marked up 2-fold to pay for marketing regional people.

However when it boils down to the MAIN pros and cons of the 5D and GH1, the 7D doesn't really make much headway. Yes 24p is 'nice'. Yes region switchable - very commendable. But the main issue with the 5D and the 7D is the same - usability & stills camera legacy (mirror box), and with that in mind remember you lose the 5D's best feature with the 7D - a full frame sensor.

I am not having a tough choice deciding between the GH1 and 7D. GH1 wins hands down. The choice between the GH1 and 5D is only tough because of the 5D's beautiful image.
 
I tried the 5D2 too, and despite having many Canon lenses, ended up with two GH1s. The Canon was, for me, very limiting.

I switched from Canon to Nikon when I tried the D3, and I did briefly compare the 5D2 focusing ability and images with the D3. I greatly prefer the Nikon for the image quality and AF tracking. Sooner or later either Canon or Nikon will address the issues that causes many of us to choose the GH1 instead.

The GH1 has brought many photographers like me into the video world. I am enjoying it, and love the avenues it opens. I know Uwe is a photographer, but if others are reading this, they might find the photomotion plugin helpful,

http://www.geethree.com/

The tutorials here, http://www.geethree.com/tutorials/index.html
using PhotoMotion and PhotoMotion Producer, make integrating and using stills viable.
 
commanderspike said:
I see no benefit from the 7D apart from 24p, oh and 60p for slow mo. But in 60p the GH1 performs at it's best - codec stands up better and AF tracking is sweet.

Honestly you could take out the 5D Mark II's sensor, ribbon cable, circuit board and shutter mechanism and make a full frame GH1 :) It's so similar.

It's just a shame they had to put that damned mirror box in it along with a fixed screen and heavy chassis.
Click to expand...

Thats becase the 5D is a Photo camera.

I HATE the gh1 because of the lack of a optical focal box. Remeber, people take photos too....

Totally agree with you on the LAck of moveable Screen.... I wish the 5dII had that.
 
TimurCivan said:
Thats becase the 5D is a Photo camera.

I HATE the gh1 because of the lack of a optical focal box. Remeber, people take photos too....

Totally agree with you on the LAck of moveable Screen.... I wish the 5dII had that.
Click to expand...

I place a lot of importance on taking photos and find the EVF on the GH1 to actually have some pros over the optical view finder on the 5D.

You can enable grid lines. It can gain up in circumstances where an optical one would be too dark. You can shoot video through it. It's just as big as the 5D's optical view finder and it has a better display of shooting info & more functionality / options.

The top of the EVF box on the GH1 ends before the view finder on the 5D even begins.

But still I struggle - do I compromise on image quality, or functionality?
 
the optical viewfinder is infinitely sharper. thats what i mean....

Thats important for focus on a 21.1 MP sensor. every mm off you are shows up in the photo.
 
Yeah but with an optical viewfinder you don't get focus assist which I have found drives me crazy when focusing on a distant object.

Also you don't get a preview of DOF which is great to have.
 
I just ran some comparison footage shot at ISO 800 back on a 50 inch plasma.

Oh dear. The 5D blows the GH1 into the dust when it comes to colour and codec.

I am going to have to think very hard about which to keep. It's a dilema I'd rather not have. I advise people who wanna make a long term investment in a hybrid DSLR for video & stills to just wait. The best cameras are around the corner and the likes of these two will no longer be cutting edge in under 12 months.

They're both distinctly 1st gen.

But I love em... if I could keep both, I would. But I have a feeling, nice though the GH1 is - image quality is the absolute king even if it means:

- Getting neck ache looking at a fixed LCD
- Going without a VF for video
- Running out of batteries every 20 mins
- Having HUGE archives of video spanning many terabytes
- Lugging around a much heavier camera than the GH1
- Missing out on slow mo
- Fighting 30p editing issues
- Missing out on AF tracking shots

By the way, the GH1 isn't brighter than it's rated ISO compared to the same ISO on the 5D, so I guess this info came about because digital CMOS sensors are brighter than FILM at the same rated ISO. Don't rely on old fashioned light meters :)

Wow... yeah the GH1 is capable of some great stuff, but in medium to low ambient light the 5D floors it. What a ball ache.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top