GF2 - Welcome to the family! (It's official)

this talk of dumbing it down to get consumer level use at professional level quality ????? well the consumers can hit the " i'm a dumbass" IA button on the camera and ... hey presto "consumer level use at professional level quality"..its on the camera's NOW .. why change it ?? .. i sell these camera's for a living , and most people LIKE the hard buttons and controls .... "most people" = consumers = the people who buy what panasonic want to sell"

If they wanted a small camera that isn't really small , with interchangeable lenses they will probably never change with a really annoying f***d up menu without real buttons , i'd sell them one of the poxy Sony NEX 3 or 5's !!! then wait for them to come back and shout at me coz its actually frustrating to use and the battery lasts for about half a day!

stoopid move by panasonic if u ask me , not that anyone is .
 
Again, this is Japanese companies.
NEX5 is going huge in Japan (In Russia you could also get NEX5 with two lenses for much less, up to 30%, than GF1 kit).
In many contries Panasonic sales are close to zero.
So, they see success, and managers command to copy&paste all main features.
Small size, no controls, etc.
They do not understand real source of success (slick design, metal lenses, good distribution and logistics, etc).
 
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Dan Clark said:
Precisely! And...

How would you feel if you invested into an AF100 and a bunch of lenses, and then Panny brought out an AF200 "upgrade" the did away with all of the wonderful manual features that videographers got with the AF100? Hmmm???
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They've been touting that kinda bad behavior for years. Think back just four years ago with the GS400 to GS500 fiasco.
 
If it didn't have the touch screen, and the PASM/Drive modes (that's all that's lost) was button driven on the screen, I would agree.

But the touch interface from all the videos I've seen just looks slick. Tap, tap, done. Imagine trying to go from ISO 100 to 3200 with buttons, press, press, press, press, press, press, press, press, press, set. It's really not going to be that bad, and I think a lot of cameras will go the way of the touch screen...although I think the clever ones will keep the buttons, and adopt a 'touch screen' mode on the dial....but if you're trying to downsize, then I can't see the problem.
 
svecher said:
This could be the case of Panasonic repositioning the micro-four-thirds line as it is expanding. GFx is now set to compete with the E-PLx from Olympus and NEX-X series from Sony to capture P&S upgraders. GH2 is the top hybrid camera. AF100 the top video-cam. This move leaves a position formerly occupied by GF1 open, a prosumer/enthusiast hybrid cam in quasi-rangefinder body. I will not be at all surprised if come spring-time Panasonic announces a Fuji X100 lookalike.
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gf1 has always been at the same market as the epl1 and nex.
af100 is not in the list of panasonic consumer. its with broadcast.

nex sucks in user operability (although good quality sensr)
 
This is a major marketing screwup

This is a major marketing screwup

svecher said:
This could be the case of Panasonic repositioning the micro-four-thirds line as it is expanding. GFx is now set to compete with the E-PLx from Olympus and NEX-X series from Sony to capture P&S upgraders. GH2 is the top hybrid camera. AF100 the top video-cam. This move leaves a position formerly occupied by GF1 open, a prosumer/enthusiast hybrid cam in quasi-rangefinder body. I will not be at all surprised if come spring-time Panasonic announces a Fuji X100 lookalike.
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You may well be right. However, it's a very stupid move, IMO. In the 10 years I've been a member DPReview forums, I've never seen a firestorm like the one caused by the GF2. I've never seen a camera turn a generally positive group like the folks in the u4/3 forum into a rampant mob that is slamming Panasonic right and left. if there was ever a textbook example of a marketing disaster, this would be it.

The GF1 appeals to a certain kind of person who like the manual controls, provides good quality images, and comes in a small package. I don't categorize it as a fashion camera. OTOH, the GF2 is absolutely a fashion camera. As a fashion statement or a beginners camera, it will work out nicely. However, they just threw their current GF1 customers into the toilet. There is no upgrade path.

A much smarter move would have been to come out with a new line like "GB1". They'd sell a bunch and wouldn't PO current customers.

I was in professional (computer) sales and marketing for 15 years. I worked my head off to become good at it. Two things that were pounded into my head were that establishing a brand name is tough and that you always want to keep your customers after you worked so hard to get them. That's why I call this a massive marketing screwup.

Regards,

Dan.
 
Give the Gf2 some time. If done right it will be in every Wal-mart and Target in the US, which they couldn't do with the GF1. Old sensor and less parts means cheaper to make. I bet these could sell for $299 US and still make a tidy profit.
They should try the razor and blades business model - "Give away the razors - sell the blades". Sell the GF2 cheap and build marketshare, the get people to buy new lenses. They do need good distribution and logistics as Vitaliy said. That is very important.
The iPhone generation should be attracted to this also.

btw, did they stop selling the GF1? People keep acting like it won't be an option for people who want more controls...and hasn't Panasonic come out with 4 new cameras in about 8 months? Don't you think they have have rumored GF1 type replacement with the small built-in EVF coming soon?
 
m43user said:
Give the Gf2 some time. If done right it will be in every Wal-mart and Target in the US, which they couldn't do with the GF1. Old sensor and less parts means cheaper to make. I bet these could sell for $299 US and still make a tidy profit.
They should try the razor and blades business model - "Give away the razors - sell the blades". Sell the GF2 cheap and build marketshare, the get people to buy new lenses. They do need good distribution and logistics as Vitaliy said. That is very important.
The iPhone generation should be attracted to this also.

btw, did they stop selling the GF1? People keep acting like it won't be an option for people who want more controls...and hasn't Panasonic come out with 4 new cameras in about 8 months? Don't you think they have have rumored GF1 type replacement with the small built-in EVF coming soon?
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Good points. Except that Panasonic is confusing the heck out of customers. And they're going to add the manual controls back in? That'll really muddy up the waters.
 
Guys, if you want to see real disaster look at GH2, not at GF2.
They have very good camera announced at right time and for almost the right price.
And...
Even biggest sellers still do not know how much items they could get and when it'll happen.
Before January they could sell only small amounts (compared to potential sales).
It is pointless to make products if you marketing department do not exists and your sales ang logictics units barely work.
They send bunch of GH2 for testers.
GH2 is even released in Japan.
And I still do not see any decent review.
May be they got idea that their advancements will be highly prized by stills oriented sites?
No, D7000 will be king of the reviews. And GH2 only small little brother.
These guys need quick and effective kick in the ass.
I don't know, may be hire Jan as leading manager for Lumix department?
 
Dan Clark said:
Good points. Except that Panasonic is confusing the heck out of customers. And they're going to add the manual controls back in? That'll really muddy up the waters.
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Exactly which manual controls did the GF1 have that was lost in the GF2? As far as I can see, what they lost was the mode dial, drive control, AF/AE lock and the AF/MF button. Instead, they have a touch screen command to change the mode that looks like it requires only two touches to change the exposure mode. How often does one change the mode dial while shooting? If you're like me, not very often. The drive control now has a dedicated button to use with the control dial. The AF/AE lock can be accessed with the shutter half-press. The AF/MF button is a question mark at the moment.

Actually, after thinking about it some more, I think a rear touch screen might be faster than a mode dial. You don't need to flip the camera over to look at the top panel. It's always illuminated so you don't need to fumble in the dark. You no longer have a dial that could be accidentally rotated to a different setting. The menu system seems to be improved, allowing you to reposition the most frequently accessed buttons for quicker control. I can't say for sure until I try it myself, but it certainly does not seem to be the ergonomic disaster that some people are claiming.

Finally, the control dial is still there, and there are dedicated buttons for control of the ISO, WB, AF mode & drive mode. The only question I have is whether it has full manual control in video. But then again, the original GF1 didn't have that either.
 
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dcloud said:
gf1 has always been at the same market as the epl1 and nex.
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Well, not when it first came to market -- there was no EP-L1 last fall (it was announced in February, 2010) and the NEX's (May). They are in the same market now, so GF2 appears to be Panasonic's unusual response to new market contestants. People don't like to downgrade. Introducing it as GB1 (or GX-1, whatever sounds more attractive to this target), as suggested by Dan, sounds much more logical. Alas, it is what it is.
 
Vitaliy Kiselev said:
...
I don't know, may be hire Jan as leading manager for Lumix department?
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She has my vote!

20 years ago, I held several marketing positions. The smartest thing I ever did was to go out and go nose to nose with customers. It's very tough to have them look you in the face, and tell you that they don't like your product or that it's too expensive. It is VERY humbling. But it's also VERY educational. I've been there, done that, and know how difficult it is. That's why I admire Jan. She's one smart, tough lady!!!

Regards,

Dan.
 
Can anyone confirm? Does the GF2 have manual control over aperture, shutter speed & ISO in video mode? To be honest, I think that is far more important than the lack of a mechanical mode dial.
 
If I were to have to pick either the GF1 or GF2, I'd pick the GF2 very quickly. It has better video quality for crying out loud. It also looks like the chip is far more similar to the GH1's since it capable of doing better videos. The low light capabilities seam a bit better and I'd expect the auto focusing to be much better than the GF1's. You also get all that in a smaller body.

I do believe Panasonic may come out with a GF3 version soon which will be a little bigger than the GH2 and have extra controls on the outside. Who's to say it wont also have a view finder and an articulating screen. It would still have the same chip as the GF2's so Panasonic doesn't have to worry about taking away GH2 sales.


With all that said, if you threw the GH2 in there, that's an entirely different story.
 
The endless ranting about the GF2 is absurd. Let's face it. The GF2 is a great camera for the people who need a small and almost pants pocket-able camera. If you need things it doesn't have then there is always the larger GH2 for twice the price. Here is a parody video of the movie “Downfall” where Hitler rants about the GF2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0L2B7BwnOUU
 
Dan Clark said:
Good points. Except that Panasonic is confusing the heck out of customers. And they're going to add the manual controls back in? That'll really muddy up the waters.
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Wait. There was a G series camera with a built-in EVF that does great video (GH1). There was another G series camera that looked similar but was stripped down (G10). Then another that had no EVF (GF1). And another still for sale that can't do video (G1).

You never complained about how confusing that was, but now adding another camera will be? Is you concern that only blind people are shopping for these cameras and can't see that some have more controls than others?

Personally I believe choice is good and let the consumers decide which is best. No one said they will quit selling the GF1 today.

Also, Panasonic's marketing and distribution is bad. If they have any sense they should discount the GF2 and get it in every big box and electronics store they can.

And yeah, where are the GH2 reviews? The reviews for the Sony A55 were out MONTHS before you could get the camera.
 
RE - GF2 downfall parody .......first Downfall parody i have watched that i didn't find funny at all.
 
androoow said:
RE - GF2 downfall parody .......first Downfall parody i have watched that i didn't find funny at all.
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Because you don’t think it is funny or because it made light of all of the endless and irrelevant complaining that is happening with the GF2?

Personally, I find it to be lame as well. If I wanted to hear meaningless complaining I could just go over to the m4/3s forums at dpreview. :happy:
 
I think we are all familiar with the new Extra Tele Conversion function on the GH2 that adds a near lossless 2.6x zoom and 3.9x zoom for 1080p and 720p video respectively. However, until now I hadn’t seen any information on whether the GF2 would have this option.
According to Panasonic Global the GF2 will have the Extra Tele Conversion function. However, it won’t operate in the exact same manner as the GH2 because the sensor sizes are different.



http://www.panasonic.net/avc/lumix/systemcamera/gms/gf2/movie.html


extra_image02.gif
imgexpand0.gif

imgexpand1.gif





In the GF2 the 1080i/30p PSF mode the Extra Tele Conversion function does not offer any extra zoom at all. That is extremely disappointing. I was hoping it would at least give you a 2.1x zoom.



In 720p @ 30 FPS mode it does give you a 3.1x zoom though. That will be great for turning the 14mm into a 43mm lens and turning the 20mm into a 62mm lens. Those are good focal lengths but not nearly as good as the 36mm, 55mm, and 78mm focal lengths the GH2 will give you.
So what do you all think? Is the extra teleconversion function in the GF2 going to be useful for you?
 
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