Getting the best out of my camera...

TheJetBlack

TheJetBlack

Active member
Hey. I've been reading plenty on the Canon 5D Mark II and how stunning the images look. I'm quite dissapointed that it has poor sound and no mic input -- how does that work now? Yeah, can't afford it -- though, I want one, but I have to make do with what I have... which isn't bad.

I own a Canon HV20 and I rather love it -- if it's possible to love a camcorder. However, looking at the films I've made, I just know the HV20 can do better.

For example, this is my web series and it doesn't look... that good:


How can I make my HV20 footage look like this:


Well, here's my theory...

1) A 35mm adapter (the only kind I can afford is a Jag35ST) and some type of lens? (I have no knowledge of camera tech specs)

2) Softbox lighting. No? Yes?

3) Proper importing and exporting into FCP. How does one do that to maximize camera
potential? (On my web series, I used iMovie HD... maybe that's the problem?)

4) That 24p pull down remover thing? I didn't do that. Maybe that's why? Can someone give details on this that's easy to understand? Like Dummies easy? Thanks.

That's all I can come up with. What have you got?

Lastly, does anyone know of any cool/cheap matte box/double handle shoulder support rig for the HV20? I'm not great at building stuff, so I was looking to get something pre-made. I want my shoots look more professional. That could help.

Help me out, mates. I'd appreciate it. :cheesy:
 
If you're unhappy with how your footage is coming out, I can almost guarantee you that the problem isn't the camera, nor it is any one piece of equipment that you can buy like a 35mm adapter. Too often people look for the fast and easy solution (buy a new camera, add this effect in the editing program) and they ignore the fact that their fundamentals might just be off. Ask yourself some of these basic questions when evaluating your footage

1) Was the composition of the shot interesting and draws the audience's attention to where you want it to go? The example you posted had dramatic shot choices and consideration has clearly been given to each shot so that they work together to tell a story.
2) Was the shot well lit? Again the example shows dramatic use of light and darkness to focus your attention and convey a mood. The shot isn't flatly lit which creates a much more interesting look.
3) Was there a good use of art design? The choice of location is incredibly important. An ugly location with blank white walls will look like crap no matter how well lit. I actually don't think that short film picked such a great location which is why it still has that indie look to it.

Answer these questions honestly about your own work and you'll see that getting better footage is about more than getting a better camera or finding out which piece of equipments to buy. This is why people spent years learning the craft and still feel like they haven't learn enough. There's a wealth of information on this forum on composition, lighting technique and art design, have fun.
 
TheJetBlack said:
Hey. I've been reading plenty on the Canon 5D Mark II and how stunning the images look. I'm quite dissapointed that it has poor sound and no mic input -- how does that work now? Yeah, can't afford it -- though, I want one, but I have to make do with what I have... which isn't bad.
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The usual advice with the DLSRs is to use a two system setup, where the sound is recorded on a separate device. For 'low budget' recording the Zoom H4n is popular. It takes 1/4 or XLR connectors and has phantom power for mics that require it.

As for the 'adapter+traditionalfixedlensvideo'. for the price of all the 'stuff' you probably would do better with a Canon 7D, 5D, T2i, or the Panasonic Lumix GH-1 (soon out is the GH-2).

What these cameras provide is 'no hassle' interchangeable lenses. The 35mm adapters were sort of 'what you have to do' with cameras that have a fixed lens. With the DSLRs there are a variety of cheap non-optical adapters to fit Nikons, Canon, or even real live cine lenses to one of the above mentioned DSLRs.

As for 'no money now'... Deep focus is not an Ultimate Evil. There are many traditional 35mm films made with 'deep focus', watch some, and see how this sort of technique can give you 'pro' results
with less expense, that is using what you have.
 
As for what I posted up, it was really a last minute thing where we just did it for laughs.

I don't know if this is any better, so here's a trailer to my feature. Perhaps a minor improvement?


Better lighting
Better actors

Forget DoF... you don't really need it if you can control lighting.
Click to expand...

Better lighting is a must, I know. Any advice on what to buy for cheap to achieve cinematic lighting? Or even stuff I can get at IKEA?

They're not actors. They're acting students/friends who wanted to help me out. They're cool.

The usual advice with the DLSRs is to use a two system setup, where the sound is recorded on a separate device. For 'low budget' recording the Zoom H4n is popular. It takes 1/4 or XLR connectors and has phantom power for mics that require it.
Click to expand...

I have a RODE VideoMic. Is that good enough? I also hear those Zoom H4's are not ideal for movie dialog, but more with live music performances. True?

Huy Vu
If you're unhappy with how your footage is coming out, I can almost guarantee you that the problem isn't the camera, nor it is any one piece of equipment that you can buy like a 35mm adapter. Too often people look for the fast and easy solution (buy a new camera, add this effect in the editing program) and they ignore the fact that their fundamentals might just be off. Ask yourself some of these basic questions when evaluating your footage

1) Was the composition of the shot interesting and draws the audience's attention to where you want it to go? The example you posted had dramatic shot choices and consideration has clearly been given to each shot so that they work together to tell a story.
2) Was the shot well lit? Again the example shows dramatic use of light and darkness to focus your attention and convey a mood. The shot isn't flatly lit which creates a much more interesting look.
3) Was there a good use of art design? The choice of location is incredibly important. An ugly location with blank white walls will look like crap no matter how well lit. I actually don't think that short film picked such a great location which is why it still has that indie look to it.

Answer these questions honestly about your own work and you'll see that getting better footage is about more than getting a better camera or finding out which piece of equipments to buy. This is why people spent years learning the craft and still feel like they haven't learn enough. There's a wealth of information on this forum on composition, lighting technique and art design, have fun.
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These are all very true points. And I agree. However, what I showed was done pretty last minute and we did it primarily for laughs. :grin:

EDIT: Also, does DSLRs like the Canon t2i shoot in 24P or do you have to do that in post?
 
TheJetBlack said:
I have a RODE VideoMic. Is that good enough? I also hear those Zoom H4's are not ideal for movie dialog, but more with live music performances. True?

EDIT: Also, does DSLRs like the Canon t2i shoot in 24P or do you have to do that in post?
Click to expand...

You'd have to pose your question to the audio section about the Rode VideoMic. You may get some brusk answers... As for the Zoom's servicability outside 'music', while it is true that the device
was sort of targeted for that market, it does capture sound and is 'inexpensive'... I'm sure someone will offer a 'good' solution for several times the price of the Zoom. That being said, at the entry level
and at the amount one has to afford on these things, it behooves one to find the limitations... if the Zoom doesn't have the best pre-amps in the world... don't try to go for the limit on an important shoot. Find
its limits and work within them... Same is true for the camera... the DSLRS are not going to really compete with an ARRI, Panavision, or RED... but that doesn't mean you can't make watchable films...

As for 24p, as far as I know the T2i does have 24p as an option. I have the GH-1, which embeds 24p in a 60i stream, so one has to do an inverse telecine operation to restore the footage to 24p.
 
TheJetBlack said:
They're not actors. They're acting students/friends who wanted to help me out. They're cool.
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That's just my point. I bet they are nice people for helping you, but it makes a huge difference. Huge. Not to demean cinemtaography, my true passion, but shoot a good monologue with Gary Oldman on a VHS camera during an earthquake and it would probably still be an entertaining and good video. :)

I didn't know this was a 'last minute' thing for laughs. I thought you were posting a solid effort to be constructively criticized. Either way, I still think the lighting and acting need to be improved more than anything else.

There are cheap lighting options out there, but it's more of how you use it versus what you have. For exterior shots try some shiny boards or mirrors. Maybe some negative fill which can be little more than a black bedsheet (same goes for the bounce, you can use white.)

As said earlier, shallow DoF is nice and easy for the indie filmmaker, but you don't really need it most of the time. You need good lighting. I'll shoot deep field... just let me shape that light. :)
 
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Yes, the Rebel T2i does shoot true 23.976 fps. Just make sure your NLE is setup to handle that framerate and you're good to go
 
Your HV20 is perfectly capable of creating amazing images without any dof adapters.. etc.

I've already been down the same road, and I learned the hard way (I bought a JAG35ST... and sold it 2 days later.)

two things will make your films look infinitely better.

1. Lighting, lighting... lighting..
2. Production design (interesting locations, and making sure the colors of the scene go together.. watch a hollywood movie.. and you'll see what I mean.)
 
Azmyth said:
Your HV20 is perfectly capable of creating amazing images without any dof adapters.. etc.

I've already been down the same road, and I learned the hard way (I bought a JAG35ST... and sold it 2 days later.)

two things will make your films look infinitely better.

1. Lighting, lighting... lighting..
2. Production design (interesting locations, and making sure the colors of the scene go together.. watch a hollywood movie.. and you'll see what I mean.)
Click to expand...

I will note though that your example was shot with a Canon XHA1, using a 35mm adapter that costs over a grand by itself. I would imagine they were using some nicer lenses too. All that aside though, if they hadn't lit it well it would have still looked like crap.
 
I commend you for getting out there and shooting. Thats half the battle. Some of the mistakes I found are these.
1. As said before, LIGHTING. Even if you buy some ten dollar leds and add them to your set design, you can create depth and nice aesthetics.
2. Set design, bring in some plants or something with some color to add contrast to the existing decor, pictures, framed maps, whatever, Use the LEDS in 1. to enhance the pics, bring them out of the wall, so to speak.
3. White balance, your kelvin temp seems a bit off, or maybe you went a bit crazy with your color grading, but your skin tones are not very appealing.
4 .Wardrobe, choose interesting clothing, something we can remember, and differenciate the characters until we get to know their names.
5. Try not to zoom unless it's for a reason, slow push in, can make it look as the walls are closing in on the character.
6 script, the writing is not very good, I see that it's suppose to be comedy, but timing is everything. It takes a funny person to deliver comedy naturally. I see many productions, that hire non funny people to do comedic roles. Not everyone can be funny. And I have always said " SARCASIM IS A POOR EXCUSE FOR HUMOR, Anyone can be sarcastic, but not everyone can be funny. This is why the majority of comedic actors are taken from stand up backrounds.
7. The actors are very very very flat, The main objective for acting is to convince the audience that the actor is the person their playing. CONVINCE THE AUDIENCE.
8. And last but not least, keep shooting man, your on your way, and by comming here to get advice is smart, it shows you dont have an ego like many filmmakers do. And it shows your open and willing to learn. Looking foreward to seeing some of the suggestions in this thread to be executed.
 
El Director said:
Yes, the Rebel T2i does shoot true 23.976 fps. Just make sure your NLE is setup to handle that framerate and you're good to go
Click to expand...

I have FCP. Guess I'm good to go.

You'd have to pose your question to the audio section about the Rode VideoMic. You may get some brusk answers...
Click to expand...

So the Zoom H1 is better? Can you link me to a Youtube that displays its ability?

1. Lighting, lighting... lighting..
2. Production design (interesting locations, and making sure the colors of the scene go together.. watch a hollywood movie.. and you'll see what I mean.)
Click to expand...

I will go spend some time in the lighting and production design section then. Thanks.

5. Try not to zoom unless it's for a reason, slow push in, can make it look as the walls are closing in on the character.
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No dolly or steadicam. I sometimes just physcially move with the naked HV20 to achieve this. lol.

script, the writing is not very good, I see that it's suppose to be comedy, but timing is everything.
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I know the script isn't good 'cause I wrote it in 30 minutes. lol. I just wanted to have something to practice shooting with and ask people on what I should improve. When I write features, though, I take A LOT of time writing and revising. I'm confident one day that my serious scripts will move an audience.

The actors are very very very flat, The main objective for acting is to convince the audience that the actor is the person their playing. CONVINCE THE AUDIENCE.
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Not actors. They're my friends. lol.

And last but not least, keep shooting man, your on your way, and by comming here to get advice is smart, it shows you dont have an ego like many filmmakers do. And it shows your open and willing to learn. Looking foreward to seeing some of the suggestions in this thread to be executed.
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I always intend on making films, even through nursing school. I admit, I used to have a premature ego and then I realized -- that's stupid. I wanna get better, so I should make friends with everybody and learn from everybody. I'm only 22. lol. And, to me, filmmaking is about always learning and being considerate because it's such a powerful medium.

And to be honest, I've learned more here than I did in college. Even after getting my degree in Media Productions for Digital Video -- I'm still learning a lot more here. So, thanks to everyone for putting in their two cents. :cool:
 
TheJetBlack said:
So the Zoom H1 is better? Can you link me to a Youtube that displays its ability?
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Don't think I mentioned the H1... I have the H4, the Zoom H4n is the current model in that series.

The other similar price range devices I've seen mentioned in the audio section are:

Tascam DR-100

and for a bit more

Marantz PMD 661

The Zoom H4, H4n, and the two just mentioned all have XLR imputs, phantom power, and WAV encapsulation with variable bit rates. The standard for video is 48k samples/sec.
The H1 only has 1/8 jack input, so would be problematic for XLR mics or 1/4 jacks, etc.
 
With the H4, can I attach my RODE VideoMic with an XLR adapter? If so, will the sound improve tremendously? As much I like the VideoMic, I can hear the noise and I'm wondering if the H4 will reduce those vague noises (you know like, "pssssssssssh" aka ocean noise... I don't know. lol.) Or should I just use the H4?

The reason I wanna attach the VideoMic is because I wanna use a boom pole.

Thanks!
 
TheJetBlack said:
With the H4, can I attach my RODE VideoMic with an XLR adapter? If so, will the sound improve tremendously? As much I like the VideoMic, I can hear the noise and I'm wondering if the H4 will reduce those vague noises (you know like, "pssssssssssh" aka ocean noise... I don't know. lol.) Or should I just use the H4?
Click to expand...

You'll have to get an adapter like THIS. A lot of the hiss you're hearing in your audio is caused by the HV20's poor pre-amp and what I suspect may be AGC, so recording to a device with better pre-amps and without AGC should have a marked improvement.
 
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Oh, most definitely will. But right now, I'm just gonna practice with what I have at the moment. Plus, I plan on putting them in everything I make (but in smaller parts) just because they've helped me out from the start.
 
I personally think that a thing many miss is shooting at the right time of day, and the right weather. If you shoot under cloudy conditions, there'll be no harsh looks to your faces. Next, you simply have to have a good sense of angles. In my opinion, the only rule to follow is to write your camera angles before the shoot, do not make them up as you go. Chances are your mind will create better angles than your hands will, and your mind is what you need to follow. Other than those two important steps, I beleive that its possible to create amazing footage with nothing else but camera skill, and correct white balance and exposure, there's plenty of amazing videos on youtube that did not have complex set ups. Some of the recent videos on the Canon section like Coffee and Ama Daga show this, and it boils down to having the right weather, the right camera settings, and a great sense of angles.

A big problem is most likely your contrast is too high in camera, that fake looking highlight pushing contrast that cameras apply makes anything look horrible. Dial it down a bit, and again, shoot under equal and flat light sources to get the hang of things, try cloudy days, supermarkets, things like that.
 
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