Getting the best out of D800: hypotheses/tips for your consideration

^ I guess the jpg processing is too slow to run at video framerates, so they had to look for a simplified pipeline, and they botched the DR in the process (probably because the guys who had to do it didn't think video users would ever need more than 11 stops of DR)

wuffer said:
It's done quick 'n easily via After Effects, so you are still inside premiere.
Even better is the selective colourcorrection, for example you could concentrate the warm tint on the highlights alone and leave the shadows a bit cooler.


*edit*
I checked: you could do it directly in premiere!
which version you're using?
Click to expand...

In fact the WB tool in the Premiere Fast-CC filter is the best WB corrector I have worked with, much better than anything I've seen on AE
 
Samuel H said:
^ I guess the jpg processing is too slow to run at video framerates, so they had to look for a simplified pipeline, and they botched the DR in the process (probably because the guys who had to do it didn't think video users would ever need more than 11 stops of DR)



In fact the WB tool in the Premiere Fast-CC filter is the best WB corrector I have worked with, much better than anything I've seen on AE
Click to expand...

I need to try this out. I have tried to manually adjust with Colorista II but its really tricky sometimes. Also feel that I should learn how to jump into (and correct in) speedgrade now that it has a direct link to premiere in CC version.
 
/OT

Samuel H said:
^ I guess the jpg processing is too slow to run at video framerates...
Click to expand...

THIS I would accept, but it's not really proven.

Look at this figures:
Nikon
D4 16 MP x 10 fps = 160 MP/s in raw, jpg or tiff - what you want, continuous shooting in jpg possible.
D800 36 MP x ~ 4,x fps = 150 MP/s

Canon
5D MKIII 24MPx 6 fps = 132 MP/s

all around 150 million pixel per second, divided by 25 frames = 6 million pixel x 25 frames per second... would be more than enough. And this with elder processors.

They could! if they wanted, without any doubt. They could even integrated a SSD-Disk in the battery grip. Think what Black Magic had done.

But until now, DSLR had been a booming market with annual 10-20% growing. The biggest problem for the big players has been persuading the costumer to buy a new body every 2-4 years... :-)
Video DSLR was more or less unsupported because it's a) a niche and b) they want you to pay for a still cam + a camcorder.
This could be probably even important for Nikon, as they buy sensors from Sony. I like to believe it's a mafia... :-)

But the DSLR market is saturated now and I hope we will see something new around next February, at the moment they are only clearing their warehouses of old stuff (like the 'new' Nikonbody) for x-mas

sry for OT!
 
The processing power is there, but it's probably not a linear thing: you have to add the downsampling to your pipeline, and debayering four 3K images may be a lot slower than one 6K image depending on the hardware implementation.
It seems they should incorporate this functionality to their Digic and Expeed processors, but developing new silicon takes an awful lot of time, and it seems they devoted their efforts to try to improve the codec instead of the debayering, which is not a bad path either.

Our dream cam is coming, I doubt it will be another 2 years until we get something with an APS-C or bigger sensor, mirrorless mount (so you can adapt basically everything, and can use a speedbooster too), RAW with 14 DR stops or more (storage and processing issues will be solved too), decent ergonomics and features (at least as good as a 5D3 with ML), all for $3K or less.
(the BMCC4K doesn't fit that list: DR and ergonomics/features are way off) (the 5D3 is the closest, but DR is not there either)
 
Samuel H said:
The processing power is there, but it's probably not a linear thing: you have to add the downsampling to your pipeline, and debayering four 3K images may be a lot slower than one 6K image depending on the hardware implementation.
It seems they should incorporate this functionality to their Digic and Expeed processors, but developing new silicon takes an awful lot of time, and it seems they devoted their efforts to try to improve the codec instead of the debayering, which is not a bad path either.

Our dream cam is coming, I doubt it will be another 2 years until we get something with an APS-C or bigger sensor, mirrorless mount (so you can adapt basically everything, and can use a speedbooster too), RAW with 14 DR stops or more (storage and processing issues will be solved too), decent ergonomics and features (at least as good as a 5D3 with ML), all for $3K or less.
(the BMCC4K doesn't fit that list: DR and ergonomics/features are way off) (the 5D3 is the closest, but DR is not there either)
Click to expand...


My dream cam would be 2K ProRes LT on a fullframe like D4 that can do kind of clean ISO 6400, with a 1080p60 mode. Other than that I can work out the kinks.
 
Some inconsistent and sporadic observations:

I've been testing the Flaat-profile on the D800 to try and figure out what to use for low-light. My conclusion for now is that flaat 11 delivers the most flexibility and the best colors to my taste. The gradation from black to dark colors are not very satisfying on any profile, but on flaat 11 you can adjust it in post, crushing the noise in the blacks to your taste, while neutral and portrait crush the blacks and some useable DR.

Another interesting thing was the noise-structure on the HDMI-out was much better than the recorded media on memorycard. Especially flaat looked way smoother on my tv, and the ISO 1600 looks kind of clean.

Flaat 10 has very different and less pleasing colors than flaat 11, in my taste.

In Manual WB-settings I set it three steps towards magenta, away from green. In PP i set the Toning one or two steps towards red. Seems to get rid of sick-looking skin-color.
 
OK; more tests. I've shot different typical dark scenes and my conclusion is kind of simple. Flaat 11 will give you more detail in the shadows, but it will require more work to get it clean in post. Flaat 10 would be perfect but for some reason its really saturated towards red however you dial it. I think a profile like flaat 10 with better colors (less saturated) would be such a great all-around profile on the D800. As it stands now the regular portrait feels like the easiest one to work with.

If youre done with this stuff I might have to do it myself Samuel!
 
I see!

I will try that. Do you by any chance have the flaat beta-files left? Since you calibrated those to the D800 they could be alittle better for it?
 
I think Im doing progress with making my own profiles. They are inspired by flaat and based on portrait. Just trying to get flaat 10 DR with a bit lower black level, less saturation in shadows and getting the histogram to clip all the way into 255 in the highlights. To be able to look at the flaat curves and how they are made really helped me! I mimiced the way you lay them up and tried to get low contrast in shadows but only boosting the blacklevel to 5. Thank you Samuel!
 
Samuel how did you make these profiles? As in what software? Are you using the picture editor software that comes with nikon dslr or is there a third party software? I did make myself a LUT which I call a print lut as it is with contrast and saturation as I would like in final picture. Before recording I switch to flaat10 or 11. As of lately im using flaat10 more. Less banding ofcourse and I can grade it to my heart's desire as well. I would like to make a profile as well. Or atleast try. stokstad I would like to see your results
 
I use the software that comes with the camera (AFAIK it's the only way to create custom profiles)
 
I will try and make a comparison of some sort when im done. The program is captureNX 2 in which I start picture control utility. My goal is to have a profile that works well with darker scenes, rendering a balanced amount of noise in the blacks at iso 400-800. Second goal is to make them more all-around, getting them to render the white-point all the way to 255 and giving nice flat midtones. Something funky is going on with how the camera handles the curves, getting the histogram to clip att around 10-15 and 240, but it seems you can get this to like 5-255 if youre careful with setting the highlight rolloff and having DR around flaat 10.
 
Ok so I have made 2 profiles which Im happy with for the moment. They have a bit more contrast in the shadows and lower black-point than flaat, but the first one essentially have the same DR as flaat 10, the other one a little more but not as much as flaat 11. The midtones are much like flaat 11 but get a bit darker in the highlights and then top out differently, so that the histogram clips on 255 on my camera. Visually I can only see a difference between the profiles in the shadows and the lower midtones, where the colors on my profiles for some reason are a little less saturated or less warm, for some reason.

If someone wants to try them out feel free to drop me an message on edvard.stokstad@gmail.com and I'll send them.
 
OK. I got the flaat beta-profiles from Samuel, thank you for that.

In my opinion, the flaat11p is really the best profile I have tried for the D800. It squeezed just the right amount of DR out of the camera while maintaining true blacks, true whites and a really nice flat in-between. The colours are also the best I've seen in the shadows, keeping saturation down a bit in the low-light giving nicer looking skin-tone and less expressive noise. The great thing with not raising black level is that you don't really need to do anything to with the footage before it looks good, while my profiles and the new flaat you need to lower the black-level which brings down the luminance in the whole shadows, needing to fine-tune them back again, where flaat11p keeps the absolute darkness black, but very quickly finding detail in lighter gradiations.

Just to be clear: My preferences are mostly based on how the profiles handle under-exposure and shadow detail, but I have looked at midtones and highlights aswell, where the difference is very subtle between all the flatter profiles based on portrait.

So Samuel, thanks for a great profile! I think my profile-search is over now :)


Another note: I think the in-camera Noise Reduction should be tested, because it seems to do a really good job. Will try the medium level by itself, and with neat video to see if you cant push the ISO to around 2000 if needed.
 
Great to hear. I get that the one you like most is Flaat11p-beta2, right? If so, aren't you finding it a bit noisier than the v1 version?
 
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