Getting Started with Sony....

keylight

keylight

Veteran
I'd like advice and suggestions from people on getting started with Sony mirrorless cameras. In the past I've been using Panasonic GHx cameras (in addition to various Panny ENG cameras). I've also been carrying various models of Sony's RX100 wherever I go for the past couple of years. (Hate the menus, love the camera.)

My thought is to get my feet wet with the a6300 and a couple of the new Batis lenses. I understand that putting an FE lens on this camera will result in a 1.5x crop when shooting stills (which I'm fine with) but what about shooting video? Using an E mount lens and shooting 4K results in a 1.1x crop on the a6300, so would using an FE at 4K result in 1.65x?

I've seriously considered getting the A7rii, but I'm not ready to commit $3200 to Sony for a body at this early point. I think I'd rather put down $1K on a body and spend the extra $2200 on the Batis 85mm and 25mm lenses (together they cost $2400). In terms of video, given that the A7rii shoots at a 1.5x crop in S35 mode, it seems like the FOV on the a6300 and A7rii end up being basically the same, so the best way to use my $$ is on glass that I can use later if/when I step-up to Sony's FF bodies (or easily sell if I don't).

With all of that said, I would really welcome your thoughts, suggestions, insights and caveats. What do you think?

Thanks!
 
keylight said:
I'd like advice and suggestions from people on getting started with Sony mirrorless cameras. In the past I've been using Panasonic GHx cameras (in addition to various Panny ENG cameras). I've also been carrying various models of Sony's RX100 wherever I go for the past couple of years. (Hate the menus, love the camera.)

My thought is to get my feet wet with the a6300 and a couple of the new Batis lenses. I understand that putting an FE lens on this camera will result in a 1.5x crop when shooting stills (which I'm fine with) but what about shooting video? Using an E mount lens and shooting 4K results in a 1.1x crop on the a6300, so would using an FE at 4K result in 1.65x?

I've seriously considered getting the A7rii, but I'm not ready to commit $3200 to Sony for a body at this early point. I think I'd rather put down $1K on a body and spend the extra $2200 on the Batis 85mm and 25mm lenses (together they cost $2400). In terms of video, given that the A7rii shoots at a 1.5x crop in S35 mode, it seems like the FOV on the a6300 and A7rii end up being basically the same, so the best way to use my $$ is on glass that I can use later if/when I step-up to Sony's FF bodies (or easily sell if I don't).

With all of that said, I would really welcome your thoughts, suggestions, insights and caveats. What do you think?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Nope, you are going to get the same 'crop' on the
A6300 whether you are shootings stills or video.
The only way you are going to get 1.1 crop instead of
1.5, is if you use a speedbooster in addition to full frame (FE)
lens......and it affects both video and stills equally. If you
arent using a speedbooster it will be 1.5 crop, but never
1.65.
 
alaskacameradude said:
Nope, you are going to get the same 'crop' on the
A6300 whether you are shootings stills or video.
The only way you are going to get 1.1 crop instead of
1.5, is if you use a speedbooster in addition to full frame (FE)
lens......and it affects both video and stills equally. If you
arent using a speedbooster it will be 1.5 crop, but never
1.65.
Click to expand...


I know that Sony E Mount lenses (for APS-C bodies like the a6300) use the full area of the lens and don't crop for photos, and I've read that for 4K video they crop at 1.1x, although I'm not sure why that is.... Maybe they are cropping the top/bottom for the aspect ratio? I'm also aware that Sony FE lenses are 1.5x crop for stills (using only the center part of the lens). What I wasn't sure about was with the video crop using FE on the APS-C a6300 body since it seems like the FE lens would still have the 1.5x (optical crop) and the sensor would cause the 1.1x crop, resulting in 1.5 x 1.1 = 1.65x crop. But perhaps I shouldn't be multiplying those two crop factors.

Regarding the Speedbooster, I don't think a speedbooster can be used with FE lenses because the FE lens shares the same flange focal length as E Mount lenses. Speedboosters (and non-speedbooster adapters for that matter) only work with lenses that have shorter flanges (like Nikon and Canon FF lenses). The adapter adds some length to the flange so the focus point falls on the sensor. For example, the flange focal distance on E Mount lenses is 18mm (both E and FE lenses). Canon it's 44mm and on Nikon it's 46.5mm.

I'd love to be able to use my m4/3 lenses on the a6300 (m43 lenses have a 20mm flange), but the only solution for doing this has some pretty bad reviews.....

m43-nex.jpg
 
You might want to test out the A6300 before you drop too much on the Batis lenses and find out taht you aren't happy with the A6300. Do you have any Canon or Nikon lenses around that you could use to test with?

Some people have struggled with overheating on the A6300, and others have had trouble with the rolling shutter. I decided that I could live with the A6300 as a stills camera, and as a sometimes 4K camera, as long as I kept my Panasonic and/or Samsung bodies for 4K. I am also going to use almost all Canon lenses on all 3 bodies- plus my Canon 7DII. And only have a minimal investment in native lenses for each body.

(I also plan to look at the Sony AX-100, RX10 II, or RX10 III etc. )

You can also adapt Sony A mount lenses with the Sony LA-EA3 adapter, which is about $100 used to $150 new.

+++

If you have Nikon mount glass, you can buy an adapter for $16. If you have Canon glass, the $100 Fotodiox Pro active adapter works pretty well.

I tested a number of my Canon lenses on the A6300 with the Fotodiox adapter. The following lenses all worked with decent auto focus for stills in low light:


* Canon 24 mm 2.8 STM Pancake, 40 mm 2.8 STM Pancake, and 50 1.8 STM - these are all about $100 each used, or less

* Canon 17-40 4.0

* Sigma 17-50 2.8 OS - this is a pretty great, low cost, 24-70 2.8 "equivalent" zoom for Nikon or Canon mount. It sells for about $270 new on eBay


The 2 Canon lenses that I tried that did not work so far are the older 85 1.8, and the older Canon 70-200 4.0 non-IS at the longer end.

I just ordered the newest Metabones T Smart Adapter IV to test with (not the Speed Booster.) I will see how it compares to the cheaper Fotodiox adapter. I also still have to test my Canon 24-70 2.8 , 24-70 4.0 II, 70-200 2.8 II, and Sigma 150-600 C. I sent back the first, "open box" Sony A6300 taht I bought for video use. I shoot events, and I couldn't count on it with the overheating. I just changed my stills & video strategy, to go to all Canon glass for all of the bodies that I keep.

I am still struggling with how soon I need to sell my Nikon D810 and Nikon lens kit. I just have too much cash invested in duplicate lenses among 5 different systems. :(

Anyway, good luck with your tests!
 
Last edited:
Great idea about testing my Nikkor glass on it (I still have some that I use on GH cameras. You mentioned Fotodiox for Canon - any particular adapter for Nikon that you can recommend?

If I like the Sony system, hopefully it will be the last time I changed systems.
 
I bought a Metabones Nikon to M 4/3 adapter for about $130. It is nice, but for $18, I bought a K&F Nikon to Samsung NX adapter that works just as well! I wish I had looked around before I bought the Metabones. :(

Here is the K&F $18, Nikon G to Sony E mount adapter at Amazon USA (although your "location" says that you are in Shanghai?):

http://www.amazon.com/Concept-Mount-Adapter-E-mount-Camera/dp/B00LECYFKE

Here is a link to the Metabones, just in case:

http://www.amazon.com/Metabones-Nikon-E-mount-Camera-Adapter/dp/B00GBMI936


There are also a few others. Fotodiox, etc.

+++

You are probably familiar with the Nikon adapters, but if you are not: These are "dumb" adapters with no electrical connections. They use a mechanical lever to stop down the mechanical aperture in the Nikon version lenses. So you are using the actual lens aperture. The cameras work well in Aperture Priority mode.

Some people complain that they aren't "calibrated", so that you know that you are at f/ 8 or f 11, etc. I just open the lens up, then watch the shutter speed as I stop down, and count the stops. That works well enough, and I have been quite happy with the adapters. Some lenses, like my Sigma 50 1.4 non-Art, work quite well in adapted mode. It is a nice, big chunk of glass, with nice rendering on APS-C, it has a pretty long focus "throw", and they run around $225 to $275 used now.

+++

The dumb Canon adapters don't work as well as the Nikon ones. They use an internal ND filter or aperture (not teh lens aperture) to "stop down" the lens. This usually leads to vignetting.

On the other hands, the "smart" or active Canon adapters are starting to get pretty decent performance on Sony, and on M 4/3. The Sony A6300 and A7RII in particular work well with the better Canon adapters. They support in body aperture control (electronic aperture), IS or VR, and now they have pretty decent auto focus! The lenses that I mentioned in my first post all focused quite well in low light- in our bedroom at night, with just teh ceiling light, going from minimum focus to distance and back over and over.

I do both stills & video. On the stills side, I do a lot of low light events, which are pretty demanding for AF, plus wildlife with long lenses. The adapters aren't quite there with the longest lenses yet, but they are pretty decent with the wide angle, standard, and short tele's.

+++

I don't know how important AF is for you? Just FYI, Sigma is also coming out with a $250 MC-11 adapter for Sigma Canon EF mount lenses to Sony FE mount. The adapter will be optimized for the current line of Sigma "Global" lenses. It is supposed to offer "native" AF performance for those lenses on the Sony.

They are just starting to ship, and there have been some mixed reports. Sigma just released an updated firmware for the MC-11, yesterday I think? That might make the Sigma 18-35 1.8 and 50 -100 1.8 especially appealing on the A6300 (if you don't mind the size and weight.) I am also hoping it allows good AF with my Sigma 150-600 Contemporary on the A6300. Plus things like the Sigma 24, 35, and 50 mm Art lense, etc.

Let me know if I can help with anything! I have been "playing" with a lot of different systems during the past 2 years. Now I need to settle down a bit, and sell off the excess. :)

Cheers! Have fun.
 
keylight said:
I know that Sony E Mount lenses (for APS-C bodies like the a6300) use the full area of the lens and don't crop for photos, and I've read that for 4K video they crop at 1.1x, although I'm not sure why that is.... Maybe they are cropping the top/bottom for the aspect ratio? I'm also aware that Sony FE lenses are 1.5x crop for stills (using only the center part of the lens). What I wasn't sure about was with the video crop using FE on the APS-C a6300 body since it seems like the FE lens would still have the 1.5x (optical crop) and the sensor would cause the 1.1x crop, resulting in 1.5 x 1.1 = 1.65x crop. But perhaps I shouldn't be multiplying those two crop factors.

Regarding the Speedbooster, I don't think a speedbooster can be used with FE lenses because the FE lens shares the same flange focal length as E Mount lenses. Speedboosters (and non-speedbooster adapters for that matter) only work with lenses that have shorter flanges (like Nikon and Canon FF lenses). The adapter adds some length to the flange so the focus point falls on the sensor. For example, the flange focal distance on E Mount lenses is 18mm (both E and FE lenses). Canon it's 44mm and on Nikon it's 46.5mm.

I'd love to be able to use my m4/3 lenses on the a6300 (m43 lenses have a 20mm flange), but the only solution for doing this has some pretty bad reviews.....

View attachment 113819
Click to expand...
Sorry, I said the wrong thing as my brain wasn't
engaged fully. You are correct in the fact that
FE lenses (which are full frame Emount lenses)
cannot be used with a speedbooster. What I meant to
say was Canon mount Full Frame lenses with a speedbooster
(or Nikon mount Full Frames lenses with a speedbooster for
that matter) will give you a 1.1 crop (basically very close to
a Full Frame 'look'). Any Emount lens (or Canon or Nikon lens
used on a 'non speedbooster' adapter) will give you a 1.5 crop.
And you can't really use M4/3 lenses as they are made for covering
a smaller sensor, so you'd likely get vignetting,
 
What are you using the camera for? Doesn't the a6300 have issues with overheating and rolling shutter? And it doesn't do so well in HD, only 4K...
 
nyvz said:
What are you using the camera for? Doesn't the a6300 have issues with overheating and rolling shutter? And it doesn't do so well in HD, only 4K...
Click to expand...

I have no issues at all shooting the a6300 in HD. I think it actually does fine in HD. It's not as detailed as 4K mode but that doesn't mean it's not good. I think we're getting spoiled in some ways now. The Sony cameras are delivering really good image quality in practically every camera they have released lately. Not perfect but much better than the competition it seems. If you use native Sony lenses with the a6300 it's a crazy good system.

I now have the 10-18mm f4, 35mm 1.8 and the 50 1.8. All have OIS and are APS-C lenses. Nice build and very light. For stills the AF is fast and accurate. For video the continuous AF is also fast and accurate. As a system I'm very pleased. I got a lot of hybrid camera for my money.
 
Thanks Unadog! I'll check out the K&F. Which particular system are you leaning towards settling down with?
 
nyvz said:
What are you using the camera for? Doesn't the a6300 have issues with overheating and rolling shutter? And it doesn't do so well in HD, only 4K...
Click to expand...

The rolling shutter is.... well, it is what it is. I won't really be whipping the camera around or doing fast pans with it and from sample footage I've seen, the RS doesn't appear to be a problem for the kinds of things I'll be shooting.

The overheating is a bigger concern, especially when I shoot interviews, so that's something I'll have to test. One thing I'm thinking that might help is using an external recorder. I think I read somewhere that the camera's monitor can be switched off when you plug something in to the HDMI port, and that should help a bit with power draw and heat generation.
 
Erik Naso said:
I now have the 10-18mm f4, 35mm 1.8 and the 50 1.8. All have OIS and are APS-C lenses. Nice build and very light. For stills the AF is fast and accurate. For video the continuous AF is also fast and accurate. As a system I'm very pleased. I got a lot of hybrid camera for my money.
Click to expand...

I was eyeing that 10-18 as another option, and the PZ 18-105mm f/4 G because... well, a PZ can be immensely useful shooting video. If I stick with the system and step up to FF, the FE PZ 28-135mm f/4 is something I'd also love to own, but that's putting the cart way before the horse!
 
Erik Naso said:
I have no issues at all shooting the a6300 in HD. I think it actually does fine in HD. It's not as detailed as 4K mode but that doesn't mean it's not good.
Click to expand...
Do you mean the a6300 in native 1080p looks fine or 1080p downsampled from original 4k footage? Reason I ask is that I have seen several reviews saying that the native 1080p (full HD) of the a6300 is much softer than the native 1080p of the a6000. But the 1080p, downsampled from native 4K, looks great.
 
CineAlta said:
Do you mean the a6300 in native 1080p looks fine or 1080p downsampled from original 4k footage? Reason I ask is that I have seen several reviews saying that the native 1080p (full HD) of the a6300 is much softer than the native 1080p of the a6000. But the 1080p, downsampled from native 4K, looks great.
Click to expand...

Shooting in HD. I really can't tell the difference unless I pixel peep in the edit bay at 400%. It looks really good to me. I wouldn't hesitate shooting in HD one minute. The rolling shutter is so much less too. The 4K image is very detailed. Impressive for $950 camera but to me shooting in HD isn't a deal breaker in situations where rolling shutter is a problem and it's only a problem with longer lenses or moving the camera to fast. This is why I picked up those three lenses with OIS. Micro jitters from shooting handheld look really bad in 4K but the OIS cures this for the most part. I don't swing the camera around so not all that concerned about RR in that instant.

I wish it had a head phone jack more than anything else. Grrrrr SONY!
 
Last edited:
Erik Naso said:
I wish it had a head phone jack more than anything else. Grrrrr SONY!
Click to expand...

I already know that I'm going to miss not having a touch screen. :Drogar-Mad(DBG): Can't tell you how many times I've reached out to touch the screen of my little go-everywhere RX100.
 
Last edited:
Here is an excellent treatise on "lens equivalence": http://admiringlight.com/blog/full-frame-equivalence-and-why-it-doesnt-matter/

First of all, Super 35 is the same no matter which camera it's in. The same focal length used for S-35 will have the same coverage on any camera that sports the format. BTW, the a7RII can shoot full-frame video as well as S-35.

In terms of a7RII or a7SII instead of a6300, I'd recommend the a7RII. Your camera platform will have inherently better image quality, and you will have the option of shooting HiDef on FF to get advantages like shallower DOF and higher resolution. Note that the a7RII can do a decent job of shooting 4K in FF, but the image quality is actually better if you shoot 4k on S-35. (For Hi-Def, FF has the advantage.)

Also the five-axis in-camera stabilization is outstanding. In a pinch you can shoot very smooth hand-held without a gimbal, and still have anti-shake even when the lens does not have that feature.

The a6300 is a nice camera, but for professionals it is basically a backup/travel/convenience camera, or one that would be used in a dedicated situation like a drone or over-the-shoulder camera for an interview shoot.
 
keylight said:
Thanks Unadog! I'll check out the K&F. Which particular system are you leaning towards settling down with?
Click to expand...

We have been testing, trying to make the Sony A6300 usable for 4K video, without overheating. I think I am giving up on the A6300 and on Sony for now.

+++

I shoot stills too. I still need a DSLR, especially for event photography, and for wildlife with long lenses. The other cameras don't have the native lenses, and they don't have the same degree of control over the auto focus point and AF settings.

I have Nikon and Canon DSLR's. I was trying to give up on Nikon, but I just can't bring myself to do it. :)

At the same time, I can't give up on Canon. The Canon lenses in particular are great for adapting to both Sony and Panasonic- with good to great auto focus, in body aperture control, and IS. I also love the ergonomics on my Canon 7DII. It is the best camera I have ever used from an ergonomics standpoint, with the control over teh AF point and AF system- with the dedicated lever, dedicated toggle, 2 back button auto focus options with customizable settings, etc.

For video, the Canon 7DII has excellent auto focus for things like wildlife, where I can't manually focus with an 1800 mm equivalent lens (it induces huge vibrations just to touch the lens.) Canon 5DIII RAW is also great for more cinematic projects.

I love the Panasonic GX85. It has 5 Axis stabilization, plus Dual IS (body and lens) when using the Panasonic lenses with IS. It has pretty good to great auto focus, almost as good as the A6300 in video mode. It is a bit limited in some ways- no headphone jack- but it has a lot of features that should show up in the GH5 in a couple of months. I also have a G7 and a GH4.

+++

I use 2 DSLR for stills at events- one with a 24-70 2.8 and one with a 70-200 2.8 or equivalent. I also use 2 or 3 cameras for video at events, running multi cam. No way can I justify a $3,200 camera when I need so many bodies. I also need internal 4K capture, I can't justify another $1.5k per body for an external recorder.

So - Sony winds up being "odd man out" for now. I tried really hard to make it work, but I am dropping Sony for now, as I just have too many systems.

I just tried a Nikon D500 to see if the 4K was useful to me. Unfortunately, the auto focus is not good at all. It is also a 2.2x crop, the same as the Panasonic. It just doesn't gain me much/ anything over the Panasonic cameras for video. It is still a great stils camera.

I will keep my Nikon D7200, maybe my D5500, and possibly my Nikon D810- I am still struggling with that. If Canon delivers a 5D4 with a sensor like the one in the 1DXII, along with great Dual Pixel Auto Focus like the C100 II and the D80, I could potentially move more toward Canon, and let go of Nikon. I am always looking for a chance to reduce the number of systems, but no manufacturer has everything. Yet. :)

I should say, I have chronic pain, and am not working as a pro any more. So I can't justify a C300 or even a C100, etc. I had an AX100 that I sold. I closed my studio a few years ago. I only do projects where I control all of the parameters, or work for myself. I just can't take the physical work like I used to. Both photography and video is very physical.

Lots of different needs and approaches here. I hope taht helps a bit? Good luck!
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top