Gemini Uncompressed 10-bit 4:2:2 workflow for XDCAM owners

You can record 10-bit 4:2:2 for about 4 grand less, with a Ki Pro Mini. This product is aimed at 4:4:4 devices, such as an f3.
 
I happened across an article stating that testing one of the XDCam models (was it the F3?) that he turned on the ramp in the maintenance menu and captured 4:2:2 and analyzed it. He said there should have been 1024 steps in the 10-bit stream, but he measured only 256 steps. I am wondering if we are really wasting money on the 10-bit recorders when 8 bits might be all the information to capture?
 
I've shot a significant amount of 10-bit 4:2:2 using my Ki Pro on the EX3. The difference is incredible, particularly when doing VFX or high end color grading and film printing. The benefit of the Gemini over the Ki Pro is uncompressed over Pro Res. The image quality difference between the two is significant on the cinema screen.
 
I'm inclined to believe that difference can be seen by the expert eye on a theater projection screen. But still, one has to wonder how working with and managing 1.2Tb/S data rates is going to go. That's pushing the bleedin' edge of disc capabilities as of this day. Ten years from now, cell phone videos may be running at this rate, and we'll be on to 64 megapixel digital theater. :)
 
basspig said:
I happened across an article stating that testing one of the XDCam models (was it the F3?) that he turned on the ramp in the maintenance menu and captured 4:2:2 and analyzed it. He said there should have been 1024 steps in the 10-bit stream, but he measured only 256 steps. I am wondering if we are really wasting money on the 10-bit recorders when 8 bits might be all the information to capture?
Click to expand...


You might have been reading my report, when I tested the ex1r's hdmi port. The hdmi port is definitely 8-bit. I have however tested the sdi out in both an ex1 and an ex1r, using a generated SAW pattern, and they are both very clearly and distinctly outputting proper 10-bit.
 
dpmwindon said:
I've shot a significant amount of 10-bit 4:2:2 using my Ki Pro on the EX3. The difference is incredible, particularly when doing VFX or high end color grading and film printing. The benefit of the Gemini over the Ki Pro is uncompressed over Pro Res. The image quality difference between the two is significant on the cinema screen.
Click to expand...

the difference between uncompressed 4:2:2 and prores 422 HQ is actually indistinguishable on a first generation transcode...
 
Fohdeesha said:
You might have been reading my report, when I tested the ex1r's hdmi port. The hdmi port is definitely 8-bit. I have however tested the sdi out in both an ex1 and an ex1r, using a generated SAW pattern, and they are both very clearly and distinctly outputting proper 10-bit.
Click to expand...

Thank you for testing and verifying the presense of 1024 levels in 10-bit HD-SDI output on the EX series. That's a load off my mind! It's Ki Pro Mini I guess, for this camera.
 
Fohdeesha said:
the difference between uncompressed 4:2:2 and prores 422 HQ is actually indistinguishable on a first generation transcode...
Click to expand...

It most cases, YES, but not in the highlights. ProRes 422 breaks up in very bright highlights, even when using it as a master codec for 35mm Film (ProRes 4444 does not have this problem). Also, why not use uncompressed 422 if you can? Disk space is cheap these days and most decent computers can handle it, and ProRes can always be used as an intermediate codec if your computer isn't fast enough, then online in uncompressed. Quality is key.
 
Does capturing with these recorders have anything to do with the far red issue with EX1 cameras? I don't suspect so, but I just want to confirm. It's a drag to shoot a theater show where you can't get a white balance when using the Teffin IR filter. So I just set the WB preset to 3200 and hope. Basspig - What are you doing in your symphony shows? I just did a theater show last night, and even polyester blue blazers were coming out a little purple...
 
Chadfish, I found a little picture profile recipe that helped a lot with the IR contamination making black clothing look shades of brown to maroon. I really noticed the difference between my December and March concert footage this time. The tweak was to lower the low chroma saturation. I set mine to -15. Just enough to make a visible improvement to black clothing, but not enough to cause string instruments to appear monochrome in darker areas. It's quite a visible difference with just that small adjustment and so far no one's complaining about it.
I just had a screening of the Rachmaninoff concert here a few hours ago and the pianist and his agent were dazzled by the recording and the way it, to put it in the agent's words "brings you into the performance".



dpmwindon, if I were to use uncompressed, my 7 TB of archived footage would become more than 400TB of archived footage, or, more practically, would become deleted footage because I couldn't afford to archive it!
 
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