FX6: Touch-Tracking Auto-Focus Demo with 200-600mm + 2.0x converter

That 'film' was a work in progress - tests befroe moving to the feature. I think you can stop 'foreground dive' using a setting. As for jello - my tests suggest shooting the r6 in 'crop mode' helps (in fact halves it). So some lessons. Also had we used this with the cast Id have used a monopod.
Yes Ive worked on this movie with lots of chases. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt16987390/
It seems like they might use some of my R6 in the intro - jello droped focus or not :)
 
ahalpert said:
I never bothered to try AF on the FS7.
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That was a wise decision. AF on the FS7 is not ready for prime time. I tried it and wrote it off years ago when I got my FS7. But recently I was hired to do some FS7 training for a syndicated TV show and I thought I'd test AF on the FS7 once again, now that I have several Sony AF lenses now that work great with the FX6. Well, the new testing wasn't any better than the old testing, so in my opinion AF is completely unusable. I didn't even waste any time talking about AF during the training and suggest they jsut keep right on using their non-AF cine lenses.

ahalpert said:
I tried AF was the a7siii, which I think is similar to the fx6 but I'm not sure you can use so many means of focusing simultaneously. Certainly, you can use touch tracking and face/eye simultaneously, but I'm not sure about full MF and push auto
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If the a7siii is anything like my A1, then the answer is no. You cannot jump back and forth between MF and the various AF modes like you can on the FX6. The FX6 is in a league of it's own, not just in terms of what options are available, but also for how well the camera actually performs in those modes.
 
Doug Jensen said:
That was a wise decision. AF on the FS7 is not ready for prime time. I tried it and wrote it off years ago when I got my FS7. But recently I was hired to do some FS7 training for a syndicated TV show and I thought I'd test AF on the FS7 once again, now that I have several Sony AF lenses now that work great with the FX6. Well, the new testing wasn't any better than the old testing, so in my opinion AF is completely unusable. I didn't even waste any time talking about AF during the training and suggest they jsut keep right on using their non-AF cine lenses.



If the a7siii is anything like my A1, then the answer is no. You cannot jump back and forth between MF and the various AF modes like you can on the FX6. The FX6 is in a league of it's own, not just in terms of what options are available, but also for how well the camera actually performs in those modes.
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Yes the A7s3 and fx3 you can bounce around the various AF modes same as the fx6. You can toggle AF on and off , or hold a button down in AF to go MF, and in MF to go AF. Fx9 you can also do this with assign button , V3 also gave the fx9 touch screen focus , same as A7s3 / fx6
 
Donny 123 said:
Yes the A7s3 and fx3 you can bounce around the various AF modes same as the fx6. You can toggle AF on and off , or hold a button down in AF to go MF, and in MF to go AF. Fx9 you can also do this with assign button , V3 also gave the fx9 touch screen focus , same as A7s3 / fx6
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I'm not saying your're wrong, but I'm skeptical about the A7s3. Why would two mirrorless Sony cameras (A7s3 and A1) perform differently? If you put the AF/MF switch on your lens to "AF", can you grab the focus ring on the lens and focus 100% manually -- thus disabling AF just by turning the focus ring? In other words, if the camera is running in Face/Detect AF or Object Tracking AF, can you switch to 100% manual focus (AF turns completely off) just by turning the focus ring on the lens a fraction of a millimeter? And AF will never turn on again unless you tap the LCD or press the Push-Auto button?

The A1 can't do those things. The FX6 can. Are you absolutely sure about the A7s3? I'm skeptical.
 
morgan_moore said:
That 'film' was a work in progress - tests befroe moving to the feature. I think you can stop 'foreground dive' using a setting. As for jello - my tests suggest shooting the r6 in 'crop mode' helps (in fact halves it). So some lessons. Also had we used this with the cast Id have used a monopod.
Yes Ive worked on this movie with lots of chases. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt16987390/
It seems like they might use some of my R6 in the intro - jello droped focus or not :)
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Sounds like using the R6 is already decided? I agree about crop mode to prevent jello. But I don't think the camera is horrific. If you had used a monopod here, there probably wouldn't have been noticeable jello.

Not sure about on the R6, but the only setting I know on the Sony mirrorless cameras to prevent foreground dive is subject switch sensitivity. It seems to me that it works as a sort of timer. On the lowest setting, it will let about 4 seconds elapse after it loses track of the subject before finding something new to focus on. At the highest setting, it refocuses immediately.
 
The film was alexa lf - shots like these were “c roll” (like b roll but worse) and are shot now. On my r6 - but im learning and crop mode is better.

any yes “subject switch sensitivity” is what i need to research - its there somewhere :)
 
if the camera does touch tracking, I recommend tapping on a loud, unique color. like a neon green light or vest, if there is one. much less likely for it to lose the subject that way
 
Doug Jensen said:
I'm not saying your're wrong, but I'm skeptical about the A7s3. Why would two mirrorless Sony cameras (A7s3 and A1) perform differently? If you put the AF/MF switch on your lens to "AF", can you grab the focus ring on the lens and focus 100% manually -- thus disabling AF just by turning the focus ring? In other words, if the camera is running in Face/Detect AF or Object Tracking AF, can you switch to 100% manual focus (AF turns completely off) just by turning the focus ring on the lens a fraction of a millimeter? And AF will never turn on again unless you tap the LCD or press the Push-Auto button?

The A1 can't do those things. The FX6 can. Are you absolutely sure about the A7s3? I'm skeptical.
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A1 has totally different sensor and more aimed at stills , Fx6 , Fx3 , A7s3 , seem to have the same sensor and the A7s3 more hybrid video orientated , I believe there are quite a few differences between the A1 and the A7 series , The fx3 now has Cine EI which the A7s3 doesn't have yet. What is the setting that will turn off AF totally , just by turning the lens , not sure I would want that , I mean focus assist is very handy to over ride AF , but I wouldn't want a situation where I might bump the focus and AF totally cuts out , or even if I want to over ride temporally , and it needs turning on again .. what menu settings gets the fx6 like this ?
 
Donny 123 said:
what menu settings gets the fx6 like this ?
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On the FX6:
A) Set the AF/MF switch on the lens to AF. This should never be switched to MF.
B) Set the Af/MF switch on the FX6 body to MF. This should never be swtiched to AF.
C) Configure the focus menus as shown in this video https://youtu.be/ASQXluuCWkQ?t=59

This combo gives me full MF and several flavors of AF always available. I can go back and forth between full MF and different AF modes with never flipping a switch. The A1 cannot do it. And I'm betting that neither can the A7s3 or any of the other mirrorless cameras. This is a huge advantage of the FX6 over the mirrorless cameras. Watch my video and tell me if you can do the same things with your A7s3.

Based on your reply, I think it is safe to say the A7s3 does not have the same functionality as the FX6 and works like the A1 instead.

Donny 123 said:
What is the setting that will turn off AF totally , just by turning the lens , not sure I would want that , I mean focus assist is very handy to over ride AF , but I wouldn't want a situation where I might bump the focus and AF totally cuts out , or even if I want to over ride temporally , and it needs turning on again .. what menu settings gets the fx6 like this ?
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I'm not worried about bumping the focus ring and dropping out of AF unexpectedly, It has never happened. But for the literally of hundreds of times when I want full manual control over focus, it fantastic to just turn the focus ring and have 100% manual control. And the camera will stay in full MF until I choose to activate AF again by tapping someplace on the LCD or pressing Push-Auto on the camera or the lens. The A1 can't do that, and it sure sounds like the A7s3 can't do it either.

By contrast, focus assist only allows you to override focus while you are actively turning the ring. Once you let go, the camera resumes AF and may not focus where you want it to. This is a huge problem. If you don't appreciate the need for having full MF focus instantly, then you must not shoot action or documentary.
 
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Doug Jensen said:
On the FX6:
A) Set the AF/MF switch on the lens to AF. This should never be switched to MF.
B) Set the Af/MF switch on the FX6 body to MF. This should never be swtiched to AF.
C) Configure the focus menus as shown in this video https://youtu.be/ASQXluuCWkQ?t=59

This combo gives me full MF and several flavors of AF always available. I can go back and forth between full MF and different AF modes with never flipping a switch. The A1 cannot do it. And I'm betting that neither can the A7s3 or any of the other mirrorless cameras. This is a huge advantage of the FX6 over the mirrorless cameras. Watch my video and tell me if you can do the same things with your A7s3.

Based on your reply, I think it is safe to say the A7s3 does not have the same functionality as the FX6 and works like the A1 instead.



I'm not worried about bumping the focus ring and dropping out of AF unexpectedly, It has never happened. But for the literally of hundreds of times when I want full manual control over focus, it fantastic to just turn the focus ring and have 100% manual control. And the camera will stay in full MF until I choose to activate AF again by tapping someplace on the LCD or pressing Push-Auto on the camera or the lens. The A1 can't do that, and it sure sounds like the A7s3 can't do it either.

By contrast, focus assist only allows you to override focus while you are actively turning the ring. Once you let go, the camera resumes AF and may not focus where you want it to. This is a huge problem. If you don't appreciate the need for having full MF focus instantly, then you must not shoot action or documentary.
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Ok thanks for the detailed reply , yeah my fx3 cant do this , but my fx9 can be set this way. I have a assign button on the grip that when held down will turn AF to MF , and MF to AF, very handy for doc work, I only use the fx3 for gimbal or B camera , I fully appreciate the use of manual focus and have shot many docs , , you don't really need to add these sort of cheap jibes on your posts , does you no favors ..
 
Thanks for the thread Doug. Interesting conversations as well.

The one thing the FX6 is missing when it comes to AF for me is the ability to use the joystick to select what to track. On the Sony mirrorless line, you can tap the screen to track or you can use the joystick plus one of their flexible spot modes to select what to track. The FX6 appears to only track if you touch the screen (not counting face/eye AF).

The reason I want this is because I like using external
monitors on my FX6 (I recently picked up a SmallHD Cine 5 and it’s amazing), but I have to keep the stock monitor mounted just so I can have the ability to use AF tracking. Plus, I don’t like being in the middle of a shot and having to touch the monitor. It would be much more intuitive to just use the joystick during a shot.
 
Donny 123 said:
I fully appreciate the use of manual focus and have shot many docs , , you don't really need to add these sort of cheap jibes on your posts , does you no favors ..
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Sorry, I didn't mean to offend you. It was just a statement of fact. I don't know what you shoot, and if it is mostly interviews or narrative, then being able to jump back and forth between MF and AF effortlessly would not be a priority. Some features are more important to different people because of how/what they shoot. Not meant to be a jibe.
 
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Joshua Milligan said:
The one thing the FX6 is missing when it comes to AF for me is the ability to use the joystick to select what to track.
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I could not agree more!! I have had conversations with the Japanese about it at NAB and lobbied for it in some emails. I can't get a sense of whether they'll work on it or not, but I have put the bug in their ear. It really would be the cherry on top of a great focus system.

But I don't want the trigger to be the joystick because it is impossible to reach when shooting from a tripod, and I rarely even have the grip on my camera. It needs to be an Assign Button function. My idea is to aim the center mark cross hairs over the subect, press the button, and the camera will start tracking focus on that subject wherever it moves or when I reframe the camera. THAT seems like a super simple feature to add. You're basically programming an Assign Button to do the same thing as tapping the center of the LCD. Seems easy to me. We'll see if we get it someday.
 
Doug Jensen said:
I could not agree more!! I have had conversations with the Japanese about it at NAB and lobbied for it in some emails. I can't get a sense of whether they'll work on it or not, but I have put the bug in their ear. It really would be the cherry on top of a great focus system.

But I don't want the trigger to be the joystick because it is impossible to reach when shooting from a tripod, and I rarely even have the grip on my camera. It needs to be an Assign Button function. My idea is to aim the center mark cross hairs over the subect, press the button, and the camera will start tracking focus on that subject wherever it moves or when I reframe the camera. THAT seems like a super simple feature to add. You're basically programming an Assign Button to do the same thing as tapping the center of the LCD. Seems easy to me. We'll see if we get it someday.
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Why not both ways, joystick or an assign button? Best of both worlds. I just want to not need the stock monitor!
 
Joshua Milligan said:
Why not both ways, joystick or an assign button? Best of both worlds. I just want to not need the stock monitor!
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Yeah, I agree with that too. It's just that I wanted to make it as simple as possible for them, and an Assign Button would be very easy. Small steps.
 
The hard part is always getting them to understand WHY such a feature is important to operators. A lot of engineers, and even product managers, have no clue how the products they make get used out in the real world. I felt like I made the case as best I could at NAB by actually showing them some real scenarios, rather than just relying on some words in an email.
 
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