FS7: Fury at monitoring!

M

morgan_moore

Major Contributor
So Im ready to roll, my FS7 20foot in the air on a jib on my shiny new Movi Pro, 20 odd crew and cast in position and I foolishly ask the director 'you do want 25p right?'

"No - 24p 17:9" (a very rare request in uk 'TV' and not on the call sheet)

Menu dive - no 24p.. menu dive more change to NTSC get 24p

Now no monitor signals. Whats broken it all?17:9? 24p?

20 min of menu digging resulyting in getting my DP502 having a picture.. perfect for me, director and focus puller - not.

THe FS7 has the worst most criptic set of menus ref the monitors.. scattered all over the menu tree.

ANyone care to explain them, how could I get my animon transmitter transmitting?
 
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Not an expert.. but have you set the out put to 4K.. most wireless transmitters won't deal with that.. must be 1080.. some systems don't like the Sony PsF thing in 23.98p..check with the manufacturer .. f5 is a lot easier as it doesn't have the prosumer -ish PAL/NTSC menu option.. all the frame rate/shutter speeds are there in one list.. I would advise to pay more for something like Teradek Bolt.. you dont get these surprises ..
 
Don.

The output was set to 1080 - 'target monitor' - I know that one

some systems don't like the Sony PsF thing in 23.98p..check with the manufacturer

My Animom spec says '1080 24p' (https://www.amimon.com/connex-uav-market/connex-mini/)

I also had a cheap HDMI splitter in the chain.

Everything works with 25p on the camera (is that PsF too?)

Do it understands 25PsF but not 24 PsF ?

My smallHD 502 - handled it well and put out a signal that worked with everything else - this was the get out of jail card.

I do have a red byte deimator that I could take SDi from the camera (more gack) and convert it to HDMI

Or maybe I need to buy some other little box and put it on the FS7.

Is this the reason one cannot buy the BM viewfinder for the FS7? Maybe there is a box that would make that work too?

--

Crazy setup was..
Camera out to HDMI spliter, HDMI down the jib arm for jib op with DP1x.. and into the transmitter.. comes to my DP502 HDMI in and outs to Atomos shogun (director) - and outputs to DP6 (focus puller!)
 
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My splitter supports
4K ULTRA HD RESOLUTION - Support 4K, 3480x2160p, 3D, and 480i@60Hz/ 480p@60Hz/ 576i@50Hz/ 576p@50Hz/ 720p@50/ 60Hz/ 1080i@50/60Hz/ 1080p@50/60Hz/ 1080P 24Hz 3D/720 60Hz/ 4K 30Hz
SUPPORT - Support HDMI v1.3/1.4, HDCP Compliant ( version 1.2 ). Support Deep Color 30 Bit/36 Bit. Support Audio Format: DTS-HD/Dolby-true HD/LPCM7.1/DTS/Dolby-AC3/DSD/HD(HBR)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01N07OFDH/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 
I know there are limits to what can be output when set to 17:9 but as I rarely do 24p this is something that has to be tested.
 
Yep - the director was happy to go to 16:9 as the first compromise.. 25p was a compromise too far. (and the Pal to NTSC swap wiped all the settings that made 25p work!)

(an asside.. the rest of the show had been shot on the 'non reliable' Ursa mini - its embarrasing that they had no problems with the cheaper camera from the upstart brand)
 
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I'm intrigued to know why they'd want 24P for UK TV broadcast.

Sounds like a distinct possibility that some numpty is brewing up a proper cluster*ck for post. I've seen it and sat there in the cutting room with my head in my hands many times.

Ben.
 
bengiles said:
I'm intrigued to know why they'd want 24P for UK TV broadcast.

Sounds like a distinct possibility that some numpty is brewing up a proper cluster*ck for post. I've seen it and sat there in the cutting room with my head in my hands many times.

Ben.
Click to expand...

Well - I knew I was doing a 'reconstruction' .. 'some WW2 stuff' - the description 'reconstruction' (and my level of bookings and the small size of the crew) led me to believe/guess that it would be UK broadcast.

In fact it was some pickup shots for a lo-budget feature film mainly shot in Germany or somewhere. This was 'HQ - England'
 
I think HDMI is your problem.. and yes for some reason 23.98 PsF seems to be the problem frame rate.. I guess some pull down thing..? there used to be alot of complaints from the f5/55,s of monitors not accepting it.. Ive shot UK productions at 23.98.. its not that unusual.. its the easiest frame rate to be 50/60 hz friendly .. 23.98 60hz.. slight speed up to 25P.. 50 Hz .. I find 30p to be the dying frame rate..
 
Donny 123 said:
I think HDMI is your problem.. and yes for some reason 23.98 PsF seems to be the problem frame rate.. I guess some pull down thing..? there used to be alot of complaints from the f5/55,s of monitors not accepting it.. Ive shot UK productions at 23.98.. its not that unusual.. its the easiest frame rate to be 50/60 hz friendly .. 23.98 60hz.. slight speed up to 25P.. 50 Hz .. I find 30p to be the dying frame rate..
Click to expand...

True - it's a 4% pitch up. But here in the UK, it's still unusual to do 24P for broadcast, unless there's a theatrical release somewhere in the pipeline. But, as Sam says, it's a feature.

I did a David Attenborough show a few years back and we had him at the top of an Aztec pyramid, doing a final piece to cam. Varicam in a heli, wanted to smooth out any potential bumps, so we instructed the operator to shoot at 50P, while using synch sound from the ground cam/audio at 25P.

He decided that 60P was even better, but maths wasn't his strong point. That took a lot of fixing and cursing in post.

Ben.
 
Donny 123 said:
I think HDMI is your problem..
Click to expand...

Im quite heavy in HDMI.. (I know some wont approve.. including me)
Animon
Small HD with broken Sdi
Older HDMI monitors.

Id be interested in a SDI to HDMI box that could cure this for me.

I do have the Redbyte decimator that might do the trick.. Ill be testing :)

S
 
Ouch. Not to mention any possible flicker changing frequency at the last second, which can easily go undetected on those small monitors.
 
bengiles said:
True - it's a 4% pitch up. But here in the UK, it's still unusual to do 24P for broadcast, unless there's a theatrical release somewhere in the pipeline. But, as Sam says, it's a feature.

I did a David Attenborough show a few years back and we had him at the top of an Aztec pyramid, doing a final piece to cam. Varicam in a heli, wanted to smooth out any potential bumps, so we instructed the operator to shoot at 50P, while using synch sound from the ground cam/audio at 25P.


He decided that 60P was even better, but maths wasn't his strong point. That took a lot of fixing and cursing in post.

Ben.
Click to expand...

haha ! yes just fly the chopper !.. I wish 30p and 60p would somehow go away.. just have 24/25p..
 
can you see if it works via SDI.. or try another monitor ..? first things I would do.. is your monitor old.. 29.97/25p/50/p/60p are all 50i or 60i compatible .. 23.98 isn't ..
 
Sam - that's a large pain in the arse. One of my least favorite things about the camera itself. If you've ever taken a dive into the manual... it's page 105 on V4... you get over 10 pages of "Output formats and limitations"... can be a complex puzzle.
I always try to confirm in advance what client exactly wants to avoid having to figure it out while a crew waits on you... but understand there will always be situations when someone - or a scenario - throws a last-minute curveball at ya... ugh.
 
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