Let's say I want to make a movie funded out of my own pocket, for x amount. Maybe I have friends and family kick in half of that in small amounts, but not as proper legal "investors" but just by a criteria I define such as a promise to pay them plus a percentage if the thing sells. So someone likes the finished movie and wants to buy the product for x amount a year later. Do you foresee any problems that would crop up making a movie this way? Or have any of you done this?
Funding movie out of your own pocket - strategy?
- Thread starter Sneakle
- Start date
Postmaster
Dark Side of the Camera
Probably not what you want to hear, but forget it.
O.K. there is Blairwich and Paranormal Activity and some others that made millions out of a few thousand bucks. But most of it was eather sheer luck or good PR or both.
But the chances you pull such a thing are close to zero.
Don`t risk your own money or even worse the money of friend and family.
This is the filmmakers bigest cardinal sin.
Check this out:
http://www.filmbiz101.com/film-fina...profitable-for-independents/film-funding.html
O.K. there is Blairwich and Paranormal Activity and some others that made millions out of a few thousand bucks. But most of it was eather sheer luck or good PR or both.
But the chances you pull such a thing are close to zero.
Don`t risk your own money or even worse the money of friend and family.
This is the filmmakers bigest cardinal sin.
Check this out:
http://www.filmbiz101.com/film-fina...profitable-for-independents/film-funding.html
deathwinger
Active member
This is actually a decent way to start off a new business. However, ensure one thing with any service or product you create....advertising and marketing!! Ensure the world knows your product exists and what it can do to benefit their needs and desires.
Good luck man.
JonathanLB
Carbonite Member
It depends what kind of money you are talking about. If you can make something good in the $100,000 to $200,000 range, and you know what you're doing, you can make your money back and get a foot in the door. But if you're talking about $15,000, $25,000, you're most likely going to make something pretty awful and lose your money, maybe even damage some relationships in the process. If you just want to do it as experience, that's ok, but otherwise be a businessman about it. Make sure you have a great script, that you know the market and how to sell the film, basically do your homework.
Just expect most people here to tell you it's impossible and making your money back on any indie film is like winning the lottery, blah blah, I think these people copy and paste that same argument to every thread like this. It's probably best because most of the time, they're right, in the sense that most indie films are pretty bad, and if you don't have a great script and a talented team your film will turn out mediocre to bad. That being said, nobody here in my years posting has offered any useful or good advice to the contrary. Nobody says how you SHOULD do this, they all just say, "Give up buddy, you can't make any money, I failed at filmmaking, so you have no chance either." If you know you have the talent and the knowledge, but you better be honest with yourself, ignore the negative nancies and go make a movie. You may only stand a 1% chance of success, sure, but the alternative is what? To find someone willing to give you $1 million to finance your first film? Come on, that's a 0% chance. You have to take a risk eventually, just make sure you're ready.
And the secret is anyone in Hollywood, anyone actually making indie films here, knows that it's not like winning the lottery at all, it's just having the right connections, the right producer, the right distribution contacts, etc. There are numerous indie film companies here that make a profit on every single film they produce. I'm working with a company like that. They don't make movies to lose money, or they wouldn't be in business.
What's always lost in these threads is everyone says what the odds are, as if somehow the odds apply to an individual like they do to rolling some dice. Only you know whether you're ready to take this plunge or not. The harder part still is it's human nature that if people warn you how tough something is, and how few will make it to the top, you will believe you are the one who will. Few people are honest and say, "Hmm, you know, I'm really just not ready for this right now." I know I wanted to make a feature a few years ago, but I knew for sure I wasn't ready, and that I had way too much to learn. You have to have that ability to be honest with yourself and ask the hard questions, like, "What is going to make my indie film successful when so many are not?" or "What makes my film more marketable than other films?" Make a formal business proposal if that helps you, read books on distribution and the marketplace, maybe even visit some film markets or festivals where these deals go down just to see what it's like.
The films that look terrible but still do amazing like Paranormal and Blair Witch are about once every decade, so that's a bad model to emulate. Better to make a great film, not an exploitation haha.
Just expect most people here to tell you it's impossible and making your money back on any indie film is like winning the lottery, blah blah, I think these people copy and paste that same argument to every thread like this. It's probably best because most of the time, they're right, in the sense that most indie films are pretty bad, and if you don't have a great script and a talented team your film will turn out mediocre to bad. That being said, nobody here in my years posting has offered any useful or good advice to the contrary. Nobody says how you SHOULD do this, they all just say, "Give up buddy, you can't make any money, I failed at filmmaking, so you have no chance either." If you know you have the talent and the knowledge, but you better be honest with yourself, ignore the negative nancies and go make a movie. You may only stand a 1% chance of success, sure, but the alternative is what? To find someone willing to give you $1 million to finance your first film? Come on, that's a 0% chance. You have to take a risk eventually, just make sure you're ready.
And the secret is anyone in Hollywood, anyone actually making indie films here, knows that it's not like winning the lottery at all, it's just having the right connections, the right producer, the right distribution contacts, etc. There are numerous indie film companies here that make a profit on every single film they produce. I'm working with a company like that. They don't make movies to lose money, or they wouldn't be in business.
What's always lost in these threads is everyone says what the odds are, as if somehow the odds apply to an individual like they do to rolling some dice. Only you know whether you're ready to take this plunge or not. The harder part still is it's human nature that if people warn you how tough something is, and how few will make it to the top, you will believe you are the one who will. Few people are honest and say, "Hmm, you know, I'm really just not ready for this right now." I know I wanted to make a feature a few years ago, but I knew for sure I wasn't ready, and that I had way too much to learn. You have to have that ability to be honest with yourself and ask the hard questions, like, "What is going to make my indie film successful when so many are not?" or "What makes my film more marketable than other films?" Make a formal business proposal if that helps you, read books on distribution and the marketplace, maybe even visit some film markets or festivals where these deals go down just to see what it's like.
The films that look terrible but still do amazing like Paranormal and Blair Witch are about once every decade, so that's a bad model to emulate. Better to make a great film, not an exploitation haha.
No one says to give up. I've never seen someone say that on any thread in this or most other filmmaking forums. That's very different from not expecting to make your money back. Or at least not relying on it.
As for your statistic, if the script is worth it and the market is known there is a much larger than 0% chance of getting funding. You just have to know how to sell. Here are some steps:
First, get a lawyer and run every step past this lawyer.
Second, write a business plan detailing your target market, how to reach them an projected returns. The budget doesn't have to show everything, but it does have to show you know what you're doing.
Second, incorporate the film as its own entity.
Third, purchase a list of accredited investors. Search around online.
Fourth, call every single person on that list and sell them on the experience, the credit, the dream, whatever. Just sell. If anyone sounds even remotely interested, get an address and send them a professionally bound business plan immediately.
It's not guaranteed as a fundraising method, but it's a pretty good chance if the business plan realistically shows that the film will sell.
But the OP didn't ask how to find investors. The OP asked about out of pocket funding in such a way that leads me to believe he's not at that stage in his filmmaking career yet, knowing that you're screwed if you mess up those investor relations. Which is why I said go for it, but don't expect large returns. Don't sell your life to fund your film if you can't get it back another way. And don't max out a credit card, that's just stupid.
Some people have got by with just their own funding and went on to become rich and famous. Maybe you'll be one. Good luck.
As for your statistic, if the script is worth it and the market is known there is a much larger than 0% chance of getting funding. You just have to know how to sell. Here are some steps:
First, get a lawyer and run every step past this lawyer.
Second, write a business plan detailing your target market, how to reach them an projected returns. The budget doesn't have to show everything, but it does have to show you know what you're doing.
Second, incorporate the film as its own entity.
Third, purchase a list of accredited investors. Search around online.
Fourth, call every single person on that list and sell them on the experience, the credit, the dream, whatever. Just sell. If anyone sounds even remotely interested, get an address and send them a professionally bound business plan immediately.
It's not guaranteed as a fundraising method, but it's a pretty good chance if the business plan realistically shows that the film will sell.
But the OP didn't ask how to find investors. The OP asked about out of pocket funding in such a way that leads me to believe he's not at that stage in his filmmaking career yet, knowing that you're screwed if you mess up those investor relations. Which is why I said go for it, but don't expect large returns. Don't sell your life to fund your film if you can't get it back another way. And don't max out a credit card, that's just stupid.
Some people have got by with just their own funding and went on to become rich and famous. Maybe you'll be one. Good luck.
Postmaster
Dark Side of the Camera
What Cassius said.
And I´m not saying don´t do it, but I was saying don`t do it with your own money ( ore even worse the money of friends and family).
There are people out there just for that - they are called investors.
They have extra money to play with, it`s their business.
And there are sponsors out there that pay you (or at least give you something) for being somehow mentioned in your film.
But never go the own/friends/family road.
Frank
And I´m not saying don´t do it, but I was saying don`t do it with your own money ( ore even worse the money of friends and family).
There are people out there just for that - they are called investors.
They have extra money to play with, it`s their business.
And there are sponsors out there that pay you (or at least give you something) for being somehow mentioned in your film.
But never go the own/friends/family road.
Frank
Ted Spencer
Veteran
I think out of pocket/friends and family is fine in two cases:
#1: A Short:
If it's under US $5K to make, go ahead if your means will allow. It'll be like spending on a vacation, a little remodeling of the house...whatever. For many if not most people, it's a risk-able amount. But make sure that film is *excellent*. Do all the 'free' stuff to a fare-thee-well - story/script first and foremost, then everything else. Do not go into production until all things are prepared to the maximum extent of your (and others') ability. If you do all the above very, very well, that film should buy you a pretty good shot at attracting outside investors to fund a feature (assuming that is what you really aspire to) in the manner described here in the excellent advice by Cassius and other posters.
#2: An absolutely slam-dunk fantastic, ultra-low budget feature:
Problem with this is thinking you've got one, like about a zillion other folks have thought, who didn't, when you don't either. But it happens, and it doesn't have to happen at the mega-success level to work. A great indie feature that costs under $1M to make but grosses a few $M at the box office/Blockbuster is actually not that terribly, terribly rare. But it *has to be great*. No exceptions, no self-delusion, no BS. Few can accomplish this, so...
Plan #1 is vastly preferable...
My $.00000000002M
#1: A Short:
If it's under US $5K to make, go ahead if your means will allow. It'll be like spending on a vacation, a little remodeling of the house...whatever. For many if not most people, it's a risk-able amount. But make sure that film is *excellent*. Do all the 'free' stuff to a fare-thee-well - story/script first and foremost, then everything else. Do not go into production until all things are prepared to the maximum extent of your (and others') ability. If you do all the above very, very well, that film should buy you a pretty good shot at attracting outside investors to fund a feature (assuming that is what you really aspire to) in the manner described here in the excellent advice by Cassius and other posters.
#2: An absolutely slam-dunk fantastic, ultra-low budget feature:
Problem with this is thinking you've got one, like about a zillion other folks have thought, who didn't, when you don't either. But it happens, and it doesn't have to happen at the mega-success level to work. A great indie feature that costs under $1M to make but grosses a few $M at the box office/Blockbuster is actually not that terribly, terribly rare. But it *has to be great*. No exceptions, no self-delusion, no BS. Few can accomplish this, so...
Plan #1 is vastly preferable...
My $.00000000002M
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Andrew McCarrick
Carbonite Member
And investors refuse to invest in projects with a director or producer that has zero credits (and short films don't generally count). Trust me, I've been in this position for 8 years now. No personal funding, and no investors because I have no directing credits. Investors want to see previous feature projects that have been some what successful.
craigbowman
Veteran
Most of the people in this community will fund their projects out of their own pockets, the same way they rush out and spend their own money on equipment.
Face it. As a group, the majority of independant filmmakers have the business IQ of a brick. Its not a slight, just a reality. Usually the business side is completely ignored until after they personally fund a project and then start wondering how to get it distributed.
Every once in a while someone has it all together, (ie. Faith Granger and her Deuce of Spades feature), and barring some unforseen accident like stepping in front of an East Bound Freight, she's bound for Glory!
So by all means, fund stuff on your own nickel. If you don't, nobody else will; until of course you don't actually need them. As for friends and family, its up to them. They know you better than anyone.
While getting outside investors is great, there are only a handful in this community who are seasoned enough to make that happen. (Faith's feature was self-funded. Surprise, Surprise!)
Face it. As a group, the majority of independant filmmakers have the business IQ of a brick. Its not a slight, just a reality. Usually the business side is completely ignored until after they personally fund a project and then start wondering how to get it distributed.
Every once in a while someone has it all together, (ie. Faith Granger and her Deuce of Spades feature), and barring some unforseen accident like stepping in front of an East Bound Freight, she's bound for Glory!
So by all means, fund stuff on your own nickel. If you don't, nobody else will; until of course you don't actually need them. As for friends and family, its up to them. They know you better than anyone.
While getting outside investors is great, there are only a handful in this community who are seasoned enough to make that happen. (Faith's feature was self-funded. Surprise, Surprise!)
I'm over 50; done documentaries, national tv spots and a load of corporate stuff since the early 90's. Why not leverage those same actors and crew to take a good script and go for it on a small budget? Isn't it better to do something than nothing? You know, MAKE SOMETHING? I'm told I should be able to get investors with my experience. I don't want investors. I want to separate the art from the business. Maybe that's the question: Can you separate the art from the business?
Lustgarten
Well-known member
por quois pas
por quois pas
Having been a distributor for 25 years I've seen a lot of producers lose investments and make lots of money. But I think it's like buying anything- it may provide satisfaction for the price and it may not. I suppose it's ok to warn nascent filmmakers that the chance of getting their money back is slim, but knock yourself out.
por quois pas
Having been a distributor for 25 years I've seen a lot of producers lose investments and make lots of money. But I think it's like buying anything- it may provide satisfaction for the price and it may not. I suppose it's ok to warn nascent filmmakers that the chance of getting their money back is slim, but knock yourself out.
October Black
Well-known member
Make your movie! But, don't break your bank.
If your ready and have a good reel, people will be available for free to help. If you don't have a reel it's time to do your homework and test, test, test.
If you have a great story it will attract great actors. If your a resourceful filmmaker that should be enough to shoot your movie.
If your not good enough to attract people to your project, work on becoming good.
If your ready and have a good reel, people will be available for free to help. If you don't have a reel it's time to do your homework and test, test, test.
If you have a great story it will attract great actors. If your a resourceful filmmaker that should be enough to shoot your movie.
If your not good enough to attract people to your project, work on becoming good.
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Kegan
Spam Assassin Mod
I think people enjoy getting on a soapbox in these types of threads. Too many people try to generalize their advice, when in fact the advice should be specific to the person.
Let's look at the facts that OP has presented: he is over 50 and has been working in the industry for around 20 years. That's working for many years that most of you spent growing up and there's a reason he has some cash to make his movie. He has good contacts with actors and crew - time to start pulling favours, getting some hype generated about the project and planning to make sure everything goes as smoothly as possible.
He doesn't want investors and from the sounds of it, he doesn't likely NEED a return or is in this to make a profit...he sounds like a filmmaker who wants to make a movie now that he has a chance.
I believe he is asking for the best way to appropriate his money...not whether or not he should do it.
If I had some advice in terms of how to do it out of pocket, I would offer it - I just wanted to try to shed some light on what he's asking for before the thread becomes pointless. I say make your movie and show DVXusers how it's done.
Sneakie, if you'd like to bounce some ideas off of me, you're more than welcome to and I'll help where I can - just shoot me a PM.
Kegan
EDIT: Just re-read original post - if you're looking for legal advice (which that more or less is), I say find an entertainment lawyer and go from there. DVXuser won't know how it works for your specific situation and the people involved.
Let's look at the facts that OP has presented: he is over 50 and has been working in the industry for around 20 years. That's working for many years that most of you spent growing up and there's a reason he has some cash to make his movie. He has good contacts with actors and crew - time to start pulling favours, getting some hype generated about the project and planning to make sure everything goes as smoothly as possible.
He doesn't want investors and from the sounds of it, he doesn't likely NEED a return or is in this to make a profit...he sounds like a filmmaker who wants to make a movie now that he has a chance.
I believe he is asking for the best way to appropriate his money...not whether or not he should do it.
If I had some advice in terms of how to do it out of pocket, I would offer it - I just wanted to try to shed some light on what he's asking for before the thread becomes pointless. I say make your movie and show DVXusers how it's done.
Sneakie, if you'd like to bounce some ideas off of me, you're more than welcome to and I'll help where I can - just shoot me a PM.
Kegan
EDIT: Just re-read original post - if you're looking for legal advice (which that more or less is), I say find an entertainment lawyer and go from there. DVXuser won't know how it works for your specific situation and the people involved.
October Black
Well-known member
Kegan,
Age has nothing to do with it. If it did he wouldn't be on here asking for advice.
He never gave a budget amount and without that number I have to generalize, much in the same way you did in your post.
He also said he'ed like to separate the art from the business. It's easy to be an artist when your not spending a ton of money.
Age has nothing to do with it. If it did he wouldn't be on here asking for advice.
He never gave a budget amount and without that number I have to generalize, much in the same way you did in your post.
He also said he'ed like to separate the art from the business. It's easy to be an artist when your not spending a ton of money.
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I'm in the same boat as you. I plan on making a feature with free locations, my own equipment, and actors that like the script. I plan on paying for gas and food. Screw the permits. Remember it's your money, you don't have to ask for permission. Don't be afraid to succeed.
October Black
Well-known member
One more thing, slightly off topic. I have looked very deep into the proper way of getting a movie off the ground. Just getting the lawyer in place and forming the LLC is enough kill most projects.
Now I will proudly stand on my soap box and scream " Rise Up & Make Your Films, Release The Guerrilla Within".
Now I will proudly stand on my soap box and scream " Rise Up & Make Your Films, Release The Guerrilla Within".
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Anymore room on that boat? I just hope it doesn't sink when I get on board! :beer:
I'm planning to make a micro budget feature as well with my own cash/crew/equipment. I don't plan on making billions of dollars or becoming the next Paranormal or Blair Witch, but I know the experience will be absolutely valuable. Plus, it's something for the resume.
>Just getting the lawyer in place and forming the LLC is enough kill most projects. >
so true