[WTB] Full Indie Rig for $15k (What would you get).

Wilbur Eddings

Wilbur Eddings

Well-known member
UPdate.
Budget increased so I'm taking a different route.
Thanks for your input.

Hi all.

This is my first post here but I have been reading these forums religiously for a long time! (Fantastic Community).

Anyhoo.

I need a rig specifically for storytelling. Long Form Indie movies.

I have $15k for an entire solution:

It's not much but I am convinced i can get off to a great start!

I am posting here for advice on what rigs you would buy with this budget and in case any suppliers troll these forums (I'm sure they do).

Here's what I have in mind:

Cam:
Sony Nex VG10
Prime Lens Kit
Grips:
Mattebox, cage, follow focus etc.
Dolly w Tracks

On-set audio/Post kit (Recording Audio straight to PC):
PC (Hate working on Mac)
NLE
Lapel mics
Sound Card (Thinking of M-Audio profire)




I need a FULL solution.
From scratch. Pre to Post.

In the past I have always hired but those days are over, I have saved up for my first rig and want to focus 100% on film making.
(No more clients deadlining the crap outta me!)

Any input would be massively appreciated.
Suppliers please post here so that others users can see what is available.
(No PM's please).

Fanks!
 
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as far as i understand, the Nex VG10 doesnt shoot 24p. thats gonna put a huge dent in your "indie movies" vibe...
 
30p is great for Digital Cinema, HDTV, DVD, Internet downloads etc. I'm happy to start there.

My next Cam will be the AF-100 then hopefully next year some other uber low cost - high performance Cams will hit the market!

A man must do what he can with what is in his hands no?
 
yeah. its a matter of taste i suppose. and doing what you can with what you have is a GREAT attitude. but ive yet to meet an indie film maker who would choose 30 over 24...

just my 2 cents.
 
" PC (Hate working on Mac)"

Well I would say FCP, but it looks like you're going to be spending a good portion of that budget on a PC version of Adobe's Master Collection.
 
Don't waste your money

Don't waste your money

It does not shoot progressive at all; this is a 60i camera, which is basically completely worthless. I urdge you not to waste two grand on this piece of shi*. This is the VERY beginning of this video camera/DSLR technology wave. This camera is going to be such a joke in about 6 months. If you have the money I would use up the ~4-6 it would take to get the Panasonic AF-100 when it comes out. That camera is exponentially better than that Sony piece of pre-obsolete shi*...

Sorry, 60i just pisses me off haha

Go ahead, get whatever you want, but this camera is a mistake, I promise.
 
sk8orinda said:
It does not shoot progressive at all; this is a 60i camera, which is basically completely worthless. I urdge you not to waste two grand on this piece of shi*. This is the VERY beginning of this video camera/DSLR technology wave. This camera is going to be such a joke in about 6 months. If you have the money I would use up the ~4-6 it would take to get the Panasonic AF-100 when it comes out. That camera is exponentially better than that Sony piece of pre-obsolete shi*...

Sorry, 60i just pisses me off haha

Go ahead, get whatever you want, but this camera is a mistake, I promise.
Click to expand...

Definitely getting the AF-100 but I like the training wheels on the VG10.

Tell me, what is it you dislike about 60i? I am very interested in these kinds of discussions. You might save me some pain if I could understand.
I tend to judge things with my eyes and ears more than by pixels and Khz.

"Dammit Jim, I'm a Director, not rocket scientist!"
 
No (cinematic) movie is shot in 60i or any "i" for that matter. What makes cinema that distinct from TV productions is that shooting in 24 frames per second gives you a very different quality of motion. It's one of many aspects when it comes to cinematography.

In your place I would start getting some basic knowledge first, read some books, shoot some simple short films first then you have a much better understanding how things work and you can more reasonably estimate what you need and want to shoot a indie feature!
 
Before you buy any camera, you need to do a LOT of research. Buying a camera without understanding frame rates is like buying a stick shift car without a license, and no driving experience. start with wikipedia. some of the really tech info on wiki is wrong, but they do a good job of explaining basic stuff like progressive vs. interlaced (30p, or 24p vs. 60i). It's also pointless to 'start' with this camera, because when the AF-100 is available, no one is going to buy this thing for more than $800, if that. Save. Wait. Do a lot of reseach in the mean time. Spend your money wisely-- other people cannont, and should not be telling you what to buy.

"Dammit Jim, I'm a Director, not rocket scientist!"
Click to expand...

if you want to be a good director, you need to learn the technical stuff inside and out. how can you trust you'll get the image and performance you want if you don't know how to even start getting it?
...just something to think about.
 
Guys, thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.

"No Cinematic movie shot at i?"
"Good Director needs technical knowledge first"???

I really appreciate the input but heck man, I see too much arguing about the paint brushes and not enough painting!

Here's how you get good at something: Try, Fail, Research, Apply, Try, Fail again rinse and repeat. Take advice when it's got infallible backing, even then, use a pinch of salt.

The earth IS NOT flat and man CAN fly.

Just because you have not seen a 60i movie does not mean it aint worth trying.

The reason I am getting the VG10, then the AF-100 and then maybe the RED or whatever is because I want first hand experience with my research to see for myself if (and how) it can work.

My VG10 will shoot 25p (in an 'i' wrapper), I really want to see how she looks on the big screen. I did it with the 5D2 and the 7D. Hell. I even did it with an Fx1.

My question was what --> your <--- take is on 60i. I really am interested. If you are telling me not to support a company with my money, you must have a very good reason no?

The only limitations I have shooting interlaced (and digital progressive mind you) is to make sure that my actors don't wear stripes, no metal mesh in the background and keep the white balance well in the safe zone.
(Ok, also slow pans and tracking - heh heh).

Its exactly like digital audio recording.
Keep it in the safe zones away from distortion and you can swing from the trees in post.
Find the limitations and write something awesome that fits in the box until you can get a bigger box.

My secret strategy is to shoot a 'found footage' short with the VG10 to see how she cranks. Caprock filter, Z-primes and DoF is sah-weet!
(Found footage films get away with murder on the technical side of the zoo).

I have shot (Directed) a 90 minute feature, music videos and a lot of corporate rubbish in the past without knowing the difference between a zoom and a prime. (DoP's just gave me the look I wanted).

Creative vision trumps technical knowledge six love.

There's a guy that paints with his (thingie) out there and his paintings sell...
How does the Artist with the latest BMW MERCEDESE JAGUAR FIVE THOUSAND PAINT BRUSH feel about that?

Anyhoo.. off my soapbox.

Lets leave the camera out of it and chat about the grips, NLE and lenses.

it is my ambition to get a rig like this, shoot something cool and then get the Government to subsidize film schools with this exact template. (I REALLY want to see more films out there!).

I hope no-one takes offense to my passion - not a big fan of the myth of limitation.
 
I would suggest you save your $2000 and rent the VG10 if you want to see how it feels.

It seems like a waste of money since you're planning on buying the AF-100 anyways. You'll just resell the VG10 for a vastly reduced price.

IMO, unless you're planning on using the equipment for the long haul and making it work it, renting>buying.
 
It seems you know what you want and wanna do already so I don't really get why you're still asking other people if you don't take their advice anyway.

p.s. I think this thread should be moved elsewhere, doesn't really belong in the marketplace anymore now does it.
 
Just because you have not seen a 60i movie does not mean it aint worth trying.
Click to expand...

I have, and it looks like ****.

Please man, I hate to be blunt, but at this point I have to urge you to NOT BE AN IDIOT. Do not be one of those ignorant bastards who's too thick-headed to understand anything. Do research, you'll see why 60i blows.


Hey, you wanna WASTE 15grand? Go ahead, be my guest. Become just another useless statistic. Creative people who don't know their ass from an HDSDI cable are useless, and I promise you, you'll never go anywhere professionally. There has to be a perfect marriage between technical understanding, and creativity for someone to make something truly great.
 
I have shot (Directed) a 90 minute feature, music videos and a lot of corporate rubbish in the past without knowing the difference between a zoom and a prime. (DoP's just gave me the look I wanted).
Click to expand...

Holy ****, you are an idiot. Please go make bad movies, there's lots of demand for those.
 
@WildtrackDave - Great idea, I'll hire it first (if I can find one in South Africa.)

@youngIndiefilms - I asked for input because I want it.
My question is what would you buy if you had the cash and the reason it is in Marketplace is in case someone has a rig they would like to sell.

I have 15k for a whole rig, not just a camera. From Camera to NLE etc.

@Sk8orinda - What is the point of insulting me?
Because I question your advice I am an idiot that makes bad movies? Your arrogance is astounding.

You make broad statements without properly backing your argument then insult me when I question you. What are you, 12 years old? If you have alternative advice that can add value, give it.

Holy crap. Really unnecessary man.
 
I think someone mentioned it here before, but you can't really ask other people what you should buy. See, when it comes to camera alone you don't take suggestions/advice from other people here. We recommend against interlaced shooting but you don't seem to care, see what I'm getting at?
Other than that it looks like you're trying to do everything on your own on since you want to buy everything.
Why not hire people, they know what works best and they know how to work their equipment.
 
If you're unsure about what camera to get, do what I do. Get a friend who knows tons about the subject (if you're an inde filmmaker you should know a few camera people) and let that guy be your technical advisor.

And yeah, if you're going into features, you want 24p. Film is 24p. Blu-ray is 24p.
Why not get a 7D or something?
 
Why write a post asking for suggestions and then not listen? If you know what you are going to get why not just post, "I am getting a 60i camera to do indie movies, all others be damned."?

There's many cowboys who've blazed trails. They just don't ask how to do it first then argue with the suggestions they get.

Get a Sony Nex VG10, tell a great story and no one will care or even ask what you shot it with. ;-)
 
LeavingTheCandy said:
Get a Sony Nex VG10, tell a great story and no one will care or even ask what you shot it with. ;-)
Click to expand...
Actually, LeavingTheCandy is right of course.

If the story you want to tell is best suited if shot with a Nex VG10 at 30fps, then you should obviously use that camera. Let the story dictate.
 
LeavingTheCandy said:
Why write a post asking for suggestions and then not listen? If you know what you are going to get why not just post, "I am getting a 60i camera to do indie movies, all others be damned."?
Click to expand...

Erm. It was more like "Getting the 60i cam then getting the AF-100 when it gets to South Africa".

I'll shoot a short on the NEX anyway while I wait. I have the time and the volunteers so why not?

I am listening :) - Just not like a sheep is all.

Great thing about the NEX is that it is cheaper than bubblegum and I can learn and practice with primes etc. until the Af-100 arrives.

I think my idea with this thread was to get an overall idea of the rest of the rig - Mattebox, Dolly n Tracks, Suggested NLE other than FCP (which I have but feel constricted and suffocated by the mac modus operandi - it may be silly but we're all different.)

I hear great things about CS5, some guys swear by Vegas (and are ridiculed for it), the career pros worship FCP and Avid is now basically the same price as CS5. It's not as cut and dry as it used to be in choosing your solution!

It's also important to me that all the codecs communicate nicely. It's pointless buying a Lamborghini if I can't fit in the seat.

Not sure why there is such animosity hereabouts, I assure you I am not trying to be difficult. I like to be thorough. To understand fully what I am buying before I buy it.

Different opinions and experiences matter to me, but 'thou shalt not' tactics are really silly.

Anyhoo. Appreciate the input.

So Far:
VG10 for training wheels until Af-100 comes out.
(I don't enjoy struggling with a stills camera so 7D and 5D2 are not an option).

Not sure about NLE
Not sure about low cost/good quality tracking/jibbing rig.
Not sure about Mattebox and Rails (RedRock and Zacuto seem very expensive but maybe worth it?)

Not sure about posting here because I feel more and more like dufus.. haha. Still. Learning as I go. heh heh.
 
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