FS7: Fujinon announce MK 18-55 T2.9 and MK 50-135 T2.9

Hmm. My take on these is that they are for ppl who need picture quality and reliability (focus, T-stop etc etc) over range. Still they are trying to be cheap, light, and cover a good range. So they would suit a lot of documentaries, musicvideos, promos, commercials etc.

I would not want these because of E-mount. Feels like everyone just want to leave all these FS7 in a dumbster as soon as they can.
I think a cine-style full-frame 24-105 T4 with IS and EF/PL (EF you can speedboost) is gonna come sooner or later, and it will sell alot. Maybe cost around 4-6k. Alternatively it comes as a 17-70 T2.9 S35. The picture quality of that lens would not even have to be that great, just slightly better than the Canon 24-105 with less variation between samples and almost parfocal and no light-loss. It could wheigh an extra kilo for that.
 
I think Sony are doing some interesting stuff with E Mount stills lenses at the mo. I had a play with the 85mm GM lens a couple of weeks ago, and it's easily a match for very nice cine primes - but with an AF motor built in (for when the machines take over :-)

Also, their new forays into STM (will be coming to a lens near you soon...) - reviews starting to emerge:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/lenses/sony/fe-100mm-f2.8-stf-gm-oss-sel100f28gm/review/#fieldtest

Having immersed myself in the A7Rii world over the last few weeks, my feeling is that the convergence between stills and video is getting stronger - I wonder if it will eventually make these cine lens efforts by Fuji etc look a little late to the market.

Ben.
 
stokstad said:
Hmm. My take on these is that they are for ppl who need picture quality and reliability (focus, T-stop etc etc) over range. Still they are trying to be cheap, light, and cover a good range. So they would suit a lot of documentaries, musicvideos, promos, commercials etc.

I would not want these because of E-mount. Feels like everyone just want to leave all these FS7 in a dumbster as soon as they can.
I think a cine-style full-frame 24-105 T4 with IS and EF/PL (EF you can speedboost) is gonna come sooner or later, and it will sell alot. Maybe cost around 4-6k. Alternatively it comes as a 17-70 T2.9 S35. The picture quality of that lens would not even have to be that great, just slightly better than the Canon 24-105 with less variation between samples and almost parfocal and no light-loss. It could wheigh an extra kilo for that.
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Sigma have an ART 24-105 f4 and are currently making cine primes and zooms out of all their ART range so expect something from them.
 
bengiles said:
I think Sony are doing some interesting stuff with E Mount stills lenses at the mo. I had a play with the 85mm GM lens a couple of weeks ago, and it's easily a match for very nice cine primes - but with an AF motor built in (for when the machines take over :-)

Also, their new forays into STM (will be coming to a lens near you soon...) - reviews starting to emerge:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/lenses/sony/fe-100mm-f2.8-stf-gm-oss-sel100f28gm/review/#fieldtest

Having immersed myself in the A7Rii world over the last few weeks, my feeling is that the convergence between stills and video is getting stronger - I wonder if it will eventually make these cine lens efforts by Fuji etc look a little late to the market.

Ben.
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Conversely after a year of owning it I just sold my A7sII because I felt it was way off my needs except as a specialist low light camera where the quality is more forgivable. I know Liam Hall had similarly little time for the A6500 he bought and used.

Looking forward to testing the GH5, the fact Sony just brought out the world's fastest SD card bodes well for the A9 and the A7sIII at least in terms of bitrates.
 
Morgan.. Im shooting 4K alot of the time these days.. not often for 4K delivery.. but production often want it for cropping etc.. and still I dont need AF.. but I do use peaking !.. it can be done.. and its not that difficult ... using high end cine zooms is not always bang bang zoom zoom type jobs.. they are more likely to be Dave with a bag full of stills lenses .. these Fujinons are very cheap.. low T stop.. par focal .. no breathing.. they just have to be gold for alot of people having the hassle of stills zooms..
 
Assuming you are on 1080 monitor on camera then you are only seeing 1/4 of the pixels you are recording. How you therefore can truly evaluate focus is therefore beyond me. My background was high end (at the time) stills and at 6k I just faced fact that my eyes could not beat AF to tickle focus when monitoring through a small on camera device (in that case 645 ground glass)
 
Almost no one is shooting 4K looking at a 4K monitor.. least of all focus pullers.. usually on Tv logic 58W.. and the operator of course not.. I have a good LCD EVF and the Zacuto EYE.. you will never be shooting anything 4K if you insist on 4K monitor .. but if you have a decent EVF is pretty easy.. peaking helps TBH..
There are no focus pullers using 4K monitors.. even on Starwars.. etc.. I think you are worrying too much about it.. maybe you should go to a rental house to check gear out.. when you have to shoot with all cine high end glass in 4K.. there will no be AF or IS.. and not always a focus puller.. Im an old fart but have been fine on F5/F55/Amira and Varicam LT..
 
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Bottom line is as soon as your eye is not pushed up to a 10ft screen none of it matters - neither your focus in 4k or if you use an old nikkor or a spanky fuiji :)

Only worry is editors pixel peeping.
 
Donny 123 said:
Almost no one is shooting 4K looking at a 4K monitor.. least of all focus pullers.. usually on Tv logic 58W.. and the operator of course not.. I have a good LCD EVF and the Zacuto EYE.. you will never be shooting anything 4K if you insist on 4K monitor .. but if you have a decent EVF is pretty easy.. peaking helps TBH..
There are no focus pullers using 4K monitors.. even on Starwars.. etc.. I think you are worrying too much about it.. maybe you should go to a rental house to check gear out.. when you have to shoot with all cine high end glass in 4K.. there will no be AF or IS.. and not always a focus puller.. Im an old fart but have been fine on F5/F55/Amira and Varicam LT..
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Absolutely this. All of it. I've been shooting 4k for over 5 years now and HD since forever and SD before that. Never had a 4k display on set. Never had an issue with buzzed focus due to resolution. You evaluate focus using the tools to hand with marks, experience, muscle memory, peaking, edge contrast detect tools, in the same way you evaluate exposure via the scopes/histo/zebras/false colour etc.

I remember exactly the same conversations as we moved from Digibeta to HDCAM 'oh my God critical focus is so much more difficult with HD now how will we cope?'. To which my cameraman at the time replied with a shrug 'if it's in focus it's in focus'. That remains a constant no matter the pixel density.
 
Ben Scott said:
Conversely after a year of owning it I just sold my A7sII because I felt it was way off my needs except as a specialist low light camera where the quality is more forgivable. I know Liam Hall had similarly little time for the A6500 he bought and used.
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Yep. Fine as a static B cam or for slow moves on a gimbal, but that's it. Useless for stills too. Utterly useless. These mini Cabrios look promising though...
 
Ben Scott said:
I'm with Ed Moore on this, from his fantastic '110 things I’ve learned in 10 years as a DP'
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Ed also said, "Be wary of the conservatism and resistance to change inherent in much of the industry".

I've been leary of investing in cine glass for a number of reason. First off my home base of Los Angeles is saturated with rentals, & Producers always know where to get a discount, so making the numbers work can be tricky.

But a bigger concern is where the industry, & it's tech, is headed. Autofocus, & Image Stabalization, often get dismissed, but I know plenty of ASC members that would embrace systems that worked well. Saw a GH5 test of a walking shot that utilitied sensor, & lens stabilization, which almost looked as if it was mounted on a gimbal, & would love something similar on a full featured motion camera. Wouldn't need it on every shot, but options are good.

And autofocus that locked-on quickly, & tracked well, but could be disengaged at the push of a button would be a great tool also. As been pointed out Cine lenses with internal motors are already on the market, & likely to increase. External FIZ systems have served the industry well, but they're clunky, temperamental, & slow down lens changes, so I'd happily scrap them.

Sony's cine-seque lenses incorporate much of this tech already, & it wouldn't be hard for them to to run with it. I doubt the 18-110mm will be their last lens in this class, & if they step-up their game with some faster options they'd grab even more market share. There's many advantages to lenses that talk to the camera, from optimizing Stabalization, to Distortion Correction, & beyond. And how hard would it be for Sony to transmit this data to a wireless remote so the 1st AC, or DP, can control the focus, iris, & zoom?

I'm intrigued by the Fujinon 18-55mm, & may well buy, but have that sinking feeling that as soon as I do Sony will announce something similar with more modern tech that may make my life easier in the long run. Most likely I could realize value in the short term, & sell the Fujinon when a better option became available, but my track record for selling gear is abmismal.
 
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I mentioned earlier but Red and Arri already allow you to control electronic lenses.

And lenses are already being built with proper cine-ready motors in them.

But I have never met a cinematographer in my life that would let something else decide what should be in focus. Sure, AF can be great for all sorts of things but not that.
 
Don't want to be a pedant but aside from the Cinealtas Sony don't have any cine -esque zooms. They have 2 ENG-esque lenses. Nobody is going to shoot a feature on these. To get the best out of them they'll need to be stopped down too.
 
Ben Scott said:
Thing is, the Fuji Cabrio and the Canon 17-120 ARE in the owner/op class. Just not your (or my) owner/op class. And as you say yes that's why we have rentals or we take 10 secs to change a lens.

If it was easy/possible to do this on a budget why do you think every single lens manufacturer is bringing new stuff to market that isn't that? There isn't even a stills lens out there doing it.

Angie with their focal reducing EZ concept certainly has legs but they have still had to sacrifice zoom range and the switch is a time consuming one. To be able to do it with a button press and not sacrifice image quality is a holy grail that is going to cost...
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Yes. Making it seem like the entire owner/op market is only guys that buy inexpensive equipment is disingenuous and misleading. There are MANY on here that have spent many $100K's on gear. 'Back in the day', that was the only way, you were going to spend $50k-$100K just to get in the door. Now, no. BUT there are still plenty that do.

I own a 17-120 and I know of guys with at least four others here in-town(two other single owner/ops and a guy with two). I can think of at least six off of the top of my head of guys I know before really thinking. Hell, I know two separate guys that each own a 50-1000, too. One here in my market and one on the west coast in LA.
 
morgan_moore said:
I could finance such a lens but my long term view is that AF will kill them and they could present a poor investment. Also Im not actually sure I want to do work of the nature that requires bang bang zoom zoom - Im trying (like us all!) to bend towards the slow slow jobs that my primes serve so well.

Or for bang bang zoom zoom I might get an XC15 or go back to my EX1

Also there is I feel an industry wide risk in terms of producers hiring operator A 'has sony 18-110 for free' vs operator B' cabrio owner wanting an extra £150 a day just for glass'. If Donny has rise above that miasma great!

The 17-120 job I did the production had a deal on rental for all the kit for 4 cams/lenses and my gear was left at home earning nothing. Another risk.

Id only go if I got a signed contract that was going to cover 50% of it in one job.

--

Technically.. a 24-105 has it all.. shrink that geometry to S35, make it a bit more robust at triple the cost and you are good.

S
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Looking at least at the 17-120, it has FIZ servos already there in the grip on the lens and reportedly, it will work with the DPAF on the c300 mkII(not owning a mkII or the EF version of the lens, I can't independently verify this), so it's not out of the realm of possibility that the current generation of "ENG style" servo cine zooms could easily work with auto focus systems/camera in the future.

On a side note, my sales rep finally got confirmation that the eUMS mark II mount system that they have at Abel is fully functioning, now, and will maintain LDS connections/functionality with both the PL(data, power and communication) and EF mount(communication/data) for the 17-120. As soon as bench time opens up, I'm sending mine in for the eUMS system conversion so that I can go between PL and EF. After that I will test the lens with a friends 300 mkII and see if AF, does in fact, work.
 
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