marvinhello
Well-known member
The banding is there even with 10bit 422 ProRes HQ. The solution for now is to shoot HLG/film sim, avoid Flog in scenes with large gradients (sky, wall etc.)
Fuji X-T3 released
- Thread starter Ken1212
- Start date
The banding is there even with 10bit 422 ProRes HQ. The solution for now is to shoot HLG/film sim, avoid Flog in scenes with large gradients (sky, wall etc.)
Ok. Thanks.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Sorry to hear that Matt. They won't cover that under warranty or will they? If not, let us know what the cost is to fix the HDMI port. Another reason I decided to go for the Tentacles, I don't trust micro HDMI at all for plugging in to the Mix Pre 3 for TC, it's even worse than full sized HDMI as far as ruggedness and reliability.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Fujifilm XT-3 Tip #1:
Make sure to NOT shoot 23.98 at 180 degree shutter when photographing scenes lit primarily by discharge lamps.
Shot a sequence with two programmers working in an office lit solely but modern fluoro tubes and the huge, slow roll bars weren't visible
on the XT-3 screen but when I loaded it and viewed it on the 27" iMacRetina screen, looked like hell. Just go to 1/60th shutter, even at 23.98
when shooting under discharge lamps. Damn roll bars will nail you every time if you don't.
Also shot in an auto shop that was solely lit by modern, but cheap LED tubes. I kept seeing flicker on C200 and XT-3 screens, both of which were shooting
23.98 with 1/48th. Turned them both to 1/60th shutter and STILL was inundated with flicker. Finally on the C200, went to Clear Scan and dialed out the flicker, which ended
up working at 53.8Mhz?!?! As far as the XT-3, doesn't have Clear Scan that I know of but you can mess with manually dialing in whole step shutter speeds so I messed with
that but never got it to look perfect but did reduce the flicker.
It's a Wild West world out there with consumer lighting, especially the cheap stuff that everyone uses so when in doubt, shoot tests and view on a real monitor, flicker and scan bars
can be a nightmare in post. When you light your own scenes with your lights, video lights are happy mostly (other than Kino tubes) at 1/48th shutter, but I am kind of gun shy now to shoot documentaries
on interiors at 23.98 with 180 degree shutter.
Make sure to NOT shoot 23.98 at 180 degree shutter when photographing scenes lit primarily by discharge lamps.
Shot a sequence with two programmers working in an office lit solely but modern fluoro tubes and the huge, slow roll bars weren't visible
on the XT-3 screen but when I loaded it and viewed it on the 27" iMacRetina screen, looked like hell. Just go to 1/60th shutter, even at 23.98
when shooting under discharge lamps. Damn roll bars will nail you every time if you don't.
Also shot in an auto shop that was solely lit by modern, but cheap LED tubes. I kept seeing flicker on C200 and XT-3 screens, both of which were shooting
23.98 with 1/48th. Turned them both to 1/60th shutter and STILL was inundated with flicker. Finally on the C200, went to Clear Scan and dialed out the flicker, which ended
up working at 53.8Mhz?!?! As far as the XT-3, doesn't have Clear Scan that I know of but you can mess with manually dialing in whole step shutter speeds so I messed with
that but never got it to look perfect but did reduce the flicker.
It's a Wild West world out there with consumer lighting, especially the cheap stuff that everyone uses so when in doubt, shoot tests and view on a real monitor, flicker and scan bars
can be a nightmare in post. When you light your own scenes with your lights, video lights are happy mostly (other than Kino tubes) at 1/48th shutter, but I am kind of gun shy now to shoot documentaries
on interiors at 23.98 with 180 degree shutter.
Batutta
Major Contributor
I always shot at 172 degree shutter on the GH4 for this reason.
For those of you who bought the Fringer adapter, there’s new firmware out:
https://www.fujirumors.com/fringer-ef-fx-pro-and-ef-fx-firmware-2-70-released/
I do wonder why Metabones hasn’t announced an X-Mount adapter. Fuji cameras seem to be gaining in popularity pretty fast...
https://www.fujirumors.com/fringer-ef-fx-pro-and-ef-fx-firmware-2-70-released/
I do wonder why Metabones hasn’t announced an X-Mount adapter. Fuji cameras seem to be gaining in popularity pretty fast...
marvinhello
Well-known member
Interesting video comparing ProRes recording from Ninja V and internal HEVC, there seems to be massive colour shift between the two (reds turn magenta).
NorBro
Major Contributor
I think every camera in history has had a thread on its reds...a difficult color for them to process, or at least process well regardless of the contribution to the results.
Most recently, Pocket 4K owners have been battling unfavorable reds/clipping from their cameras.
Most recently, Pocket 4K owners have been battling unfavorable reds/clipping from their cameras.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
I have to decide this weekend if I am going to keep the Fringer.
1. Used it on two shoots where it either AF wouldn't work or one shoot where it freaked the XT-3 with the power on the camera non-stop booting up, cutting power, booting up.
2. My Fringer, on three computers, won't show up as a device via USB. Switched cables and computers and it doesn't show up so I cannot update firmware.
In typing this out, I think I have convinced myself this one must be a lemon, I am going to exchange it. I wish Metabones was making a good adapter.
I'm pretty sure I remember reading somewhere in this beast of a thread that they are working on an x-mount speedbooster.
Will be interesting to see what kind of x-mount stuff pops up at NAB this year. I'm hoping all the recent positive press gets a few mfgs interested.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Me too although the beauty of the XT-3 for me is the size and weight along with the killer image quality. There are already a ton of cages, the battery grip, tons of junk you can hang off of it but for me, going to keep it light and simple. Mounting it on the Crane 2 with a Tentacle Sync E is about as fancy as I am going to get. My only real downer is I wish they gave us face tracking selection, I was shooting a rapper, two musicians and an engineer in a recording studio last night for a documentary, all huddled in a little semi circle for playback and it's a little frustrating not to be able to choose the face you want to focus on like I can on my C200. Could be fixed with a firmware update Fuji, if you're reading this?
was there also banding in the fuji x-h1?
(sorry if this has already been discussed. i have not gone through the 50+ pages of this thread)
thanks in advance for any info on how the x-h1 compares to the xt-3.
thumbs up.
rob
smalltalk productions/nyc
NorBro
Major Contributor
I personally didn't hear of/see any banding issues after the camera was released and a quick YT search appears not to mention it, but it could always exist in certain conditions and maybe no one noticed it (doubt it).
Also - according to the Internet - the X-T3 has a newer sensor (X-Trans CMOS IV) vs. the X-T2 and X-H1 (III), so results may and probably will vary. (Even cameras with the same sensor may process their images differently as we know thus having different issues.)
Also - according to the Internet - the X-T3 has a newer sensor (X-Trans CMOS IV) vs. the X-T2 and X-H1 (III), so results may and probably will vary. (Even cameras with the same sensor may process their images differently as we know thus having different issues.)
marvinhello
Well-known member
Big nope.
The root cause of the issue has been identified:
X-T3 (as well as X-T2/X-H1) internal recordings have these metadata tags:
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.601
Matrix coefficients : BT.601
While external ProRes recordings have these tags:
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709
As you can see, Fujifilm tags internal recordings with standard definition BT.601 spec (now obsolete) causing certain versions of NLE to misinterpret the footage (slight colour primary shift).
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Is there a simple workaround or is this something Fuji has to fix in firmware?
marvinhello
Well-known member
Take a look at the ongoing discussion in the comments:
https://youtu.be/VikU8JP8QWg
Right now the workaround is a BT.601 to BT.709 3D LUT applied on the Ninja footage.
It's bizzare that Fujifilm use BT.601 matrix for 4K 10bit encoding (with the exception of HLG mode of course).
Grug
Veteran
Very interesting. Appreciate the correction.
I've removed my post (as evidently I was spouting nonsense). Fiddling around with hue curves and all sorts of nonsense it took me an age to bring the h265 and the external Prores recordings inline with each other. And I could clearly see the greater separation of the green and red tones in the Prores waveforms, so I figured that must be the answer - but clearly I was barking up the wrong tree!
I downloaded and applied the BT.601 to BT.709 conversion, and the files are now as near to identical as can be.
I wonder if the conversion will offer any improvement to the magenta banding people have been seeing in sky tones?
Well, I received my X-T3 and hooked it up to the Pix-E5.
I can definitely report that the rec trigger does not work.
Further, I don't see timecode over it.
The PiX does not seem to be able to give me a 17:9 ratio, only 16:9.
Further, it can only do UHD, not 4K DCI, nor can it do 60fps, only 30 fps.
Lastly the magenta issue is present because I am recording the in-camera stream as I have to hit the rec button on the camera and then the PIX.
So clearly it is carrying the BT.601 meta data, not the proper BT.709. tag.
These things need to be fixed or the Pix is getting sold and the Ninja V is on the way. What a shame.
I can definitely report that the rec trigger does not work.
Further, I don't see timecode over it.
The PiX does not seem to be able to give me a 17:9 ratio, only 16:9.
Further, it can only do UHD, not 4K DCI, nor can it do 60fps, only 30 fps.
Lastly the magenta issue is present because I am recording the in-camera stream as I have to hit the rec button on the camera and then the PIX.
So clearly it is carrying the BT.601 meta data, not the proper BT.709. tag.
These things need to be fixed or the Pix is getting sold and the Ninja V is on the way. What a shame.
marvinhello
Well-known member
Ninja V won't fix the colour discrepancy though.
I'm beginning to question if the X-T3 in-camera recording is actually the correct colour. Because I used a BBC tool to modify the metadata tags to BT.709 and it had no effect on the colour.
That Northface jacket in real life is actually more magenta than orange shown in the in-camera recording, and the grass is a bit too warm.
NorBro
Major Contributor
FWIW, there are no Fujifilm cameras on their 'supported cameras' list. (Side note: I remember many new cameras not having the trigger when they were first released, but Atomos was great at adding support every year.)
It's unusual you have a camera like the a7RII on their list that never received rec trigger support. If VD is still working on the E5 (the E5H was discontinued), it should be so easy to add.
As far as 17:9, the monitor won't provide it if it doesn't recognize the camera's DCI.
And the E5's chances of supporting 4K DCI 60p are very slim as it currently maxes out at 30p and was released 3.5 years ago (even though it sounds like just UHD/60p would be okay and that even doesn't work).
https://www.videodevices.com/products/portable-video-recorders/pix-e5/supported-cameras
It's unusual you have a camera like the a7RII on their list that never received rec trigger support. If VD is still working on the E5 (the E5H was discontinued), it should be so easy to add.
As far as 17:9, the monitor won't provide it if it doesn't recognize the camera's DCI.
And the E5's chances of supporting 4K DCI 60p are very slim as it currently maxes out at 30p and was released 3.5 years ago (even though it sounds like just UHD/60p would be okay and that even doesn't work).
https://www.videodevices.com/products/portable-video-recorders/pix-e5/supported-cameras