FS700 vs Ursa Mini

[Fader8]

@ framefarmmedia: Well if you know the goodies of 4:2:2 or even RAW, yes you tend to shoot on those! But for some small
projects it can be a restrection - sometimes its perfects to just have a 32GB Card inside and film 3 hrs. Yes you don't have as much room for error as with 12 bit RAW. But if you know how to grade, you still can manage it. But if you do basic errors you also shouldn't shoot ProRes or RAW!

@ steve phillips: In other words ist not the same as the opposite No, maybe he didn't mean it that way, but someone is trying to make a decision, so his words are misleading. What people tend to forget; It is all about what has to be done --> the perfect camera could be a GoPro or the Alexa/Red. What does the job require - that is the question and people tend forget about this in the gear-craziness! You don't want to film a 2hour play with a RED or BMCC. What is it you really need for the job - and only by that you should decide what and how your using it, no matter if its a gopro or a RED.

And here an example - I myself didn't know that internal can be so damn good. I've seen a lot of far worse examples shot with 7Q/RED/BMCC cause a lot of people want good gear but don't know how to use it. So tell me could theses shots be any better?

https://vimeo.com/118892833#at=17

There's an other one which blew me off...have to find it and will post it.

 

[steve phillipps]

You're agreeing with what I said yet still saying I was wrong! I said that perhaps his quality requirements were different - and you're saying the same - requirements are different depending on the needs of the project and client. For example the FS700 IS weak if you're shooting a typical BBC show - because they won't accept it (on basis of codec) - the fact that your client won't even accept your footage kind of makes it weak - for that particular use! These codecs spawned an industry of external recorders!

Sorry, but it just gets my back up when people make personal comments like "you don't know how to use it".

Steve

 

[morgan_moore]

Sounds like I need to chime back in and expand a little.

I was an early adopter of the FS100 and have shot extensively on the 700 too.

When I was looking to upgrade I was considering the F5 but on comparing the images decided that the difference was marginal enough not to justify the cost.

You might like to see how the FS100 with a $200 nikkor compares to an F5 with a CP2..

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33167160/ouch.jpg

Due to downscaling issues (in the F5) there are attributes to the image where the FS100 beats the F5 shooting at 1080!

If you light and expose correctly the FS100/700 will perform very well. But you have mentioned that the intended use of the camera is Doco RnG, which implies that you may be thrown into varied contrasty and off axis (green mixed) lit situations and not have the tools (extensive gels/large lights) to control colour and contrast.

At that point the images will probably need to be pushed around in post.. and at that point the images from the FS100/700.. and equally the C100 and to some extent the C300 start to really degrade badly.

The small production is more reliant on a FAT codec than the larger production.

A 10bit codec will lift the final image in a huge manner unless the image is acquired on a controlled set.

On that basis while the 700 had its time (first affordable large chip with ND, XLR and HFR) to some extent it is dated. Sure for a bargain price it is still cool if you are on a very stretched budget.

Combined with the Odyssey I consider it to be too bulky for solo operation (it does make an excellent image in that mode of course)

The FS7 is clearly todays camera in that market sector offering codecs from 8bit50mbs through to 200mb 4k. Any 10bit camera.. ie black magic will make a better image too, the BM cameras come with caveats from not existing through to well documented issues of course.

From experience of both I can say the difference from 420-8 to 422-10 is chalk and cheese.

As for 'market segment' and client demands - I have no standards that I need to hit beyond my own desire to make pretty pictures.

S

 

[Darktide Media]

Back now to say my thoughts on all this, for me the prices of the FS700 right now used are great. I could sell my NX1 and Ronin M and add a bit and pick one up ready to shoot. I dont need 4k and when I need it I can rent local to record it. We shoot MMA and action sports so the high frame rate and ready to edit footage are huge for us and I feel HD will be around for a good amount of time. The URSA Mini looks amazing but its a cinema camera for sure where as the FS700 to me can fit into many shooting areas. Also I should say Im not a huge fan of the FS7 but hey I have never played with it.