FS700 replacement for kit lens

R

rawnster

Member
Greetings, first time poster. I know this has been probably discussed Ad nauseam, but I'm still not finding some specific advice. I shoot primarily corporate functions, seminars, workshops, and lots of session tracks from various presenters. These functions are notorious for terrible stage lighting, much less adequate room lighting. and what's more is that I'm often stuck in the back of the room 30ft or so. Currently, I've got an FS100 with the kit lens. Using this lens, I'm zoomed in quite a bit on the speaker, for which the f-stop jacks up around f6 or so. This forces an increased gain of at least 18db on numerous occasions. I'm sharing this with you all because I've budgeted to purchase two new FS700's. Yet, when buying these cameras, I don't want to continue with the same problem. So, I'm very interested in what zoom lens you guys would recommend. I need the zoom, for my situation doesn't allow me to change lens. I'm shooting the presentation, and then R&G'ing to a dinner or some type of corporate meet-and-greet. I hope this make sense.

What I've been looking into is the Sony Alpha 70-200 f2.8, and the Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM. I've read nothing but positive things about the Canon...other than it's price. The only negative I've read about the Sony is that it's very soft at f2.8. This would concern me a bit due to the low light situations I mentioned earlier. I know both lenses would require an adapter.

Thanks in advance, I appreciate it!
 
I would say get the Canon EF 70-200 IS II. I own it and it's one of the best zooms Canon has ever made. Incredible lens. Plus, Canon is compatible with a lot of other brands (Red, BMC, Canon and Sony) while the Sony is not, so you future proof yourself a bit.

I'd say for your purposes a Canon EF 24-105 f4 (with Speed Booster option then it becomes a 17-75 f2.8) and the 70-200 and you're golden. One thing about the 70-200 is that is heavy and you need support. A good option might be the Canon 70-200 f4. It's a lot lighter, way cheaper, does not need support and you would probably end up using it a lot more for run and gun just because that it's smaller and quicker.

I love the f2.8 70-200, but I find myself not using it enough just because it's kind of a pain in the butt to set up for quick shots.
 
You are not quite clear. A 70-200 is a different lens not a replacement.

There is really no replacement

a 70 200 is fine for the speeches stuff

personally I'd consider something cheaper - maybe an f4

imo if it is that dark that 2.8 or 4 is a killer you could just add a light?
 
If you need the full zoom range of the kit lens (18-200mm) than there is no other option. If you can deal with having a longer lens, than the 70-200 F2.8 would be a good option.
 
morgan_moore said:
imo if it is that dark that 2.8 or 4 is a killer you could just add a light?
Click to expand...

No, I can't just "add a light". These are large corporate events, for which I have no control over stage lights and such. Actually, I believe f4 would be ok. Unfortunately, the kits lens will not stay at f4 when fully zoomed.
 
@ gene_can_sing

Not if the lens is a full frame lens...like this one. A 24-105mm with a normal adapter is about a 38.4mm - 168mm on the FS700. With the Speed booster it comes closer to is "full frame" 24-105mm frame. Therefore you need to apply your .71x to the cropped focal length... not the full frame focal length.

38.4 x .71 = 27.3mm
168 x .71 = 119.3mm

So it actually becomes a 27.3mm - 119.3mm Lens on the FS700 with Speed Booster.
 
marlontorres said:
24-105 f4 is 24-105 f2.8 with Speed Booster.
Click to expand...

hey marlontorres, I need more zoom than 105. 200mm is about a small as I can go. Just last week I shot a corporate event (over a 1000 people in attendance at an EDA technology event) where I was so far back that I was constantly fully zoomed with the kit lens.
 
gene_can_sing said:
I would say get the Canon EF 70-200 IS II. I own it and it's one of the best zooms Canon has ever made. Incredible lens. Plus, Canon is compatible with a lot of other brands (Red, BMC, Canon and Sony) while the Sony is not, so you future proof yourself a bit.

I'd say for your purposes a Canon EF 24-105 f4 (with Speed Booster option then it becomes a 17-75 f2.8) and the 70-200 and you're golden. One thing about the 70-200 is that is heavy and you need support. A good option might be the Canon 70-200 f4. It's a lot lighter, way cheaper, does not need support and you would probably end up using it a lot more for run and gun just because that it's smaller and quicker.

I love the f2.8 70-200, but I find myself not using it enough just because it's kind of a pain in the butt to set up for quick shots.
Click to expand...

Thanks gene, for your help. I'm certainly leaning toward the canon EF zoom.

Just curious if there is any love at all for the Sony alpha f2.8 zoom.
 
rawnster said:
No, I can't just "add a light". These are large corporate events, for which I have no control over stage lights and such. Actually, I believe f4 would be ok. Unfortunately, the kits lens will not stay at f4 when fully zoomed.
Click to expand...

Well the client wants good video so maybe you can work with them. I'm talking from experience - light guys can help! - What happens if they choose to put the levels at 1.4 next time - then your 2.8 won't be any good either

70-200s are costly and heavy - how long will it take to pay off - can you charge for it?

I've moved to f4 myself (as the 2.8 versions have fallen apart - which takes 5 years) - but your choice of course yours

Remember you have options with a speed booster - you could get a cheaper lens and one of those..

i agree with everyone that the kit lens is not a conference lens and Sony mount lenses are a bit limiting for future cameras
 
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To give some concept of why I think 70-200 are overprice (BTW I own a nikkor 70-200 2.8, 70-200F4, canon 70-200f4 and work in an office with another shooter with a canon 70-200/2.8, I also own crazy stuff like a 400 2.8)

My main telephoto for video is my nikkor 100-300 5.6 - it cost me $125 and has much nicer focus travel and a smoother zoom than any of the AF lenses.. http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/nikon/nikkoresources/zoomsMF/100300mm.htm

It also wont break, unlike the little motors in modern lenses which end up in the repair shop all the time

That lens with a speed booster is a $500 combo and better to shoot with than any modern lens and offers the same range at half the weight and 1/4 of the cost

Some others..

Contax
http://ffordes.com/product/12091208590781
http://ffordes.com/product/12092115192481

Leica (!)
http://ffordes.com/product/10072316352005
http://ffordes.com/product/10072316352625


and throw this in the mix when the going gets tough..

http://ffordes.com/product/12100813035881


S
 
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Guy, This info is very helpful. As you all know I only shoot with my Sony Kits lens. I just bought the EF metabones speed booster. I was just about to post the same question. The speed booster has given my friend lens the EF sigma 50mm - f1.4 all the way to F1.00 it is awesome in low light.

This is what I was looking at:

70-300-01-500x500.JPG

http://www.pchood.com/电影镜头?product_id=206
 
Thanks Morgan. Thanks for the alternatives. Money is not an issue if I go the canon f2.8 route. I can buy two of them. I'm more interested in doing the right thing for my situation.
 
Well - I can see the appeal of a modern 2.8 but certainly im of the opinion that the old glass is better for filming (mainly due to smooth repeatable focus) and the 2.8 canon (for one) is big heavy and annoying to cart around

Like I said I have many modern lenses available to me* yet actually choose to use a 1985 $125 lens where possible

I suggest you try one of these old clunkers!

S

* I own..
nikkor pushpull 2.8 - rough focus
nikkor 70-200vr 2.8 OK - maintainance issues
nikkor 70-200vr 4 nice but going back
canon 70-200 f4 (i like this!)
sigma 70-200 2.8 rough focus, broken contacts after six months
 
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stefanvanjaarsveld said:
@ gene_can_sing

Not if the lens is a full frame lens...like this one. A 24-105mm with a normal adapter is about a 38.4mm - 168mm on the FS700. With the Speed booster it comes closer to is "full frame" 24-105mm frame. Therefore you need to apply your .71x to the cropped focal length... not the full frame focal length.

38.4 x .71 = 27.3mm
168 x .71 = 119.3mm

So it actually becomes a 27.3mm - 119.3mm Lens on the FS700 with Speed Booster.
Click to expand...

It's really not that complicated. I own both the Speed Booster and the Canon 24-105 f4.

Just think of the 24-105 being Super 35mm focal length. Multiply that by .71x and you get 17-75mm in Super 35mm framing.

The whole Full Frame lens difference is a moot point because Speed Booster only works with Full Frame lenses. APS-C lens like the Canon 17-55mm won't physically fit on it.

As for vintage zooms vs. modern zooms, I guess it's a matter of preference in the look. I have 2 FD zooms (70-200 and 100-300) and 1 Nikon 70-200 zoom. Personally, I prefer the colors and contrast out of my modern Canon zoom as it just looks more buttery to my eye.

But aesthetic is different for each person. But yeah, the 70-200 f2.8 is a beast. Maybe get the f4 version and you will use it a lot more.
 
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When you guys are talking about the f4 version of the canon 70-200, which one are you referring to:

[h=2]EF 70-200mm f/4L USM Lens[/h][h=2]EF 70-200mm f/4L IS USM Lens[/h]Another issue in the search for the kit replacement is...I hate to say it...., but auto focus. LOTS of my situations pretty much requires it. For example, today, I've been shooting a training session In Denver on a specific EDA software. I'm about 20 feet from the instructor. He paces back and forth, backs up and steps forward....at a pretty constant pace. If I had to manually keep focus all the while panning my camera to keep him in the shot, I don't think I could do it. Auto focus really saves my butt and allows me to keep the instructor framed correctly. And it is for this reason that I still think about the Sony alpha lenses.

Has anyone here had good luck with the alpha lenses with the FS700 (or FS100)?

Thanks!
 
gene_can_sing said:
It's really not that complicated. I own both the Speed Booster and the Canon 24-105 f4.

Just think of the 24-105 being Super 35mm focal length. Multiply that by .71x and you get 17-75mm in Super 35mm framing.

The whole Full Frame lens difference is a moot point because Speed Booster only works with Full Frame lenses. APS-C lens like the Canon 17-55mm won't physically fit on it.
Click to expand...


I'm afraid that is technically incorrect. You can't just think of a Full Frame lens being Super 35... thats like thinking your 5D is actually a 7D - doesn't make sense.

Hear me out:

1. If I use the 24-105 (FF) on my FS700 (S35), with a normal Metabones adapter (not speed booster), there will be a 1.5x crop of the Lens due to the FS700's sensor size.
2. Technically, that gives me a FOV of 36-157.5 in Full Frame Terms.
3. Since the Speed Booster "is designed to cover an APS-C Image Circle" (http://www.metabones.com/sony/ef-e-speed-booster) and not a Full Frame one, you have to always keep the 1.5x crop in mind. It's not a moot point - yes, it only works with Full Frame lenses (and some lenses designed for APS-C), but it also only works on a s35/APS-C sensor (as quoted above). So forgetting this conversion gives you an incorrect FOV.
4. So, If I use the 24-105 (FF) on my FS700 with a Speed Booster, it gets rid of the 1.5x crop, by letting the sensor see the full fov that the lens provides on a Full Frame sensor.

I'm not trying to tell you how to think, I just want to clarify. I understand this might be seen over complicated or unnecessary but it is technically correct. We are talking about stills lenses here... lenses designed for use on Full Frame cameras like the 5D. Lenses that lose their field of view on smaller sensors like the FS700's, and lenses that gain back most of that field of view using the Speed Booster on a camera like the FS700.

Lose their field of view (due to the sensor): 24 x 1.5 = 36
Gain back field of view (using the speed Booster): 36 x 0.71 = 25.2
 
Hey Stephan,

I shoot video so I think in terms of Super 35mm. I don't do still photography so I don't think in terms of full frame. A 35mm full frame lens will have the EXACT same field of view as a 35mm APS-C lens on the FS700. It does not look different. The difference is that a Full Frame lens covers a larger sensor like the 5D while the cheaper APS-C lens does not.

A 50mm lens just becomes 35mm lens with Speed Booster, a 35mm becomes a 24mm, etc... I own one and have used it quite a bit lately. This is a fact. Here's what Lensrental.com wrote about the Speed Booster (and I guarantee you they know a LOT MORE about lenses then either of us):

--------- Lens Rental wrote:

The EF to NEX Speed Booster, for example, changes the effective focal length x 0.71, and increases the maximum aperture by 1 stop. A Canon 50mm f/1.2 lens effectively becomes a 35.5mm f/0.9 NEX lens, for example. Videographers all over the internet were singing Hosannah and laying palm leaves along the path of it’s introduction.

-------

here's the article btw

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/01/metabones-magic
 
Hey Rawster,

www.photozone.de does really good lens tests and the Alpha zoom tested really well. I've seen an early FS700 + autofocus Alpha test and it worked really well. The guy was filming his dog running and the autofocus worked great.
 
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