FS700 or used F3?

Grug

Grug

Veteran
Hi guys,


I was pretty much set on the FS700 as soon as I heard the details about it, but looking around there are some very good deals going on used F3s at the moment, which has me umming and ahhing over which route to take.


- Super slow-motion and 4K upgradability with the FS700
or
- Creamy filmic latitude with an SLOGged F3


Both offer unique advantages over the other, so it's a tough call. Is 4K likely to be a greater draw to clients than SLOG down the road? It's hard to say.

I'm normally of the belief with anything digital, that 'latest' tends to equal 'greatest', but with SLOGged F3 we really hit a point of diminishing returns with S35mm digital cameras, so I'm not sure it's such a big deal in this case.



I do mostly commercials and corporate marketing/promotional videos at the moment (though I'm starting to get more music video and other creative work coming in). I've never had the budget for high-speed cameras before, so slow-motion has never really factored into my work before, but I can certainly see a place for it if the option were there.


What do you think guys? Which option would you take?
 
I would go with the F3 for your kind of work. Broadcast TV is not going 4K for a LONG time. I can't even tell the difference between 720p and 1080 on the web. 4K displays are just coming out. They will be rare for quite a while. By the time 4k really takes off (if ever) there will be a lot more choices for 4K cameras at much lower prices.

The only way I would consider a 4K camera is if I were doing something that would end up in a theatre that has a 4K projector.
With all that said, I may get a Sony FS700 just for the slow motion, not for the 4K.
 
Personally the SLogged F3 - latitude, latitude, latitude - thats where the good stuff is.
 
morgan_moore said:
I vote for nothing until the image from the new cam is well understood

S
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That would tend to be my own vote, but the rental fees for an upcoming shoot I have would offset enough of the purchase price of a used F3 to bring it within the bounds of affordability for me for the first time. So it's a bit of a snooze you lose scenario.

I have no doubt the F3 replacement will offer the best of both cameras - but then I won't be able to afford it, so it's a bit of a moot point.
 
It really depends on A, your time frame, and B, your clients.

I went down the 4K path with the original Red One as it was the hot ticket at the time. But ended up selling it as the 4K workflow while high quality, was a hindrance to turning over quick TV commercials within my clients limited budgets.

At any rate, when do you need a camera? Can you even buy an FS700 today?
 
It is not about the quantity but the quality of pixel you are getting. Think about it a 10 bit, 13.5 stop Dr and even 444. The F3 is the closest to Alexa, so think about it. If most of what you are doing is normal speed get the F3, just rent the fs-700 when you will need better than 60p. It will be a common camera (no phantom) and the rental should be very affordable. From the latest Q&A from Sony, the 4k is not even developed, it is still in discussion of what type of recorder they are going to use (on eoshd), so it might take ages and might cost an arm and leg. When it will come it might be better than the F3 and by this time you could even sell your F3 and buy it. But for now the 4k is just marketing vaporware.
 
David W. Jones said:
It really depends on A, your time frame, and B, your clients.

I went down the 4K path with the original Red One as it was the hot ticket at the time. But ended up selling it as the 4K workflow while high quality, was a hindrance to turning over quick TV commercials within my clients limited budgets.

At any rate, when do you need a camera? Can you even buy an FS700 today?
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The shoot I have coming up is just under 2 weeks away. We have the budget for camera rental, so that's not a problem - it's just that I could put that rental budget towards the purchase of a used F3 and that doing so would just about bring it within my reach financially. Without that extra to spend the camera falls back out of my price range again, and my main option then becomes the FS700 when that gets released in a couple of months' time (and I'll simply continue to rent in the meantime).

Danielvilliers said:
It is not about the quantity but the quality of pixel you are getting. Think about it a 10 bit, 13.5 stop Dr and even 444. The F3 is the closest to Alexa, so think about it. If most of what you are doing is normal speed get the F3, just rent the fs-700 when you will need better than 60p. It will be a common camera (no phantom) and the rental should be very affordable. From the latest Q&A from Sony, the 4k is not even developed, it is still in discussion of what type of recorder they are going to use (on eoshd), so it might take ages and might cost an arm and leg. When it will come it might be better than the F3 and by this time you could even sell your F3 and buy it. But for now the 4k is just marketing vaporware.
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This tends to be my line of thinking too. I'm yet to see 4K images that have stirred me in the same way that images out of the Alexa have, so the F3's Alexa-lite qualities do hold a lot of appeal.
 
How about getting a Scarlet? They are out of back order and you can get a shooting setup for 15k aprox. Don't forget red is talking about future software and hardware upgrades so it won't become obsolete like the others soon. I have an Epic and have to say the image is stunning. You also get redlog film wich is a log type gamma curve. The new redcolor 3 color science is fantastic looking. And workflow is solid right now. Food for tought!
 
Grug said:
The shoot I have coming up is just under 2 weeks away. We have the budget for camera rental, so that's not a problem - it's just that I could put that rental budget towards the purchase of a used F3 and that doing so would just about bring it within my reach financially. Without that extra to spend the camera falls back out of my price range again, and my main option then becomes the FS700 when that gets released in a couple of months' time (and I'll simply continue to rent in the meantime).


This tends to be my line of thinking too. I'm yet to see 4K images that have stirred me in the same way that images out of the Alexa have, so the F3's Alexa-lite qualities do hold a lot of appeal.
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go for the f3 man, its a very solid camera
 
And don't forget that FS700 real resolution won't be any near to real 4K. It will be better than F3, but with all other F3 advantages I would go for F3 or at least wait for more confirmed info about FS700 future. After seeing some F3 v Scarlet testes I'm even more convinced that F3 is really great camera, at least in terms of picture quality.
 
Sony's interpretation of 4K in the FS700 may have the same appeal as (ahem, blush) HDV did in the days of DVCAM.

If I may geek out, briefly: Shooting 4:2:0 HDV on a Z1 could allow you to deinterlace, squash down into a 4:2:2 DV50 workspace, shrinking those big fat 4:2:0 pixels into a smaller, more svelte form. By winding back the detail in-camera and adding a smidgin in post, we got some very nice Standard Def stuff from HDV, including chromakey (egad).

Part of me wonders if I'll get the same effect from 4K, especially if making 4:3 2K movies at iPad Retina resolution, whilst allowing an HD 16:9 crop, for example. Or shooting plates for motion tracked greenscreen (talking heads, not anything Narrative).

I just feel that this FS700 4K resolution thing will be the HDV of 4K, not the Epic/F65 sort. Happy to be proved wrong, though.
 
Well- maybe not HDV, but definitely not F65 neither:)
I predict it will be between 2.4K-2.8K. Good thing that they say it will be RAW, but we yet to see it.
 
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