FS700 and 7Q 4k modes

B

bitnaut

Active member
An upcoming project requires me to shoot 4k with my FS700 at various frame rates.

Now, as I understand it currently with v4.10 f/w on the 7Q, if I want to shoot 4k 60fps material, it can only be done in RAW and with 2 SSD in RAID format but 24 and 30 fps can be done in ProRes 422HQ with a single SSD. So if I switch between these high and standard frame rates, I will have to offload the material from the 7Q SSDs onto another hard drive first, reformat the 7Q SSDs, and then switch to the new framerate before shooting again.

Is this correct or am I missing anything?
 
This used to be the case, but it is not as of a couple firmwares ago. You can mix and match recording types on the fly.

Word of caution: As you record ProRes on one drive, your available space to record 4K 60fps diminishes quicker than you might expect. For instance if you fill one SSD halfway with ProRes footage, you only have half your maximum amount of 4K 60fps record time, even though you're only down 25% your available storage. Because 4K 60fps fills up each drive equally, you only have the available recording time of the drive with the least available storage.

I mention this because one day I was run-and-gun shooting ProRes HD and filled a drive to about 98% capacity... but then wanted to grab a 4K 120 fps shot. It ended up that the Odyssey couldn't record the 120fps clip because while one SSD was completely empty, the other didn't have enough space to handle its part of the clip.

Anyways, it's common sense but it affected me in an unexpected moment that I didn't have time to adjust and plan. So I just wanted to throw out that warning so no one else gets caught like I did.
 
This is correct that the footage can mix and match on the drive.

Alan, on the FS700 in the Slow & Quick menu you can set the underlying frame rate to 24p or 30p instead of 60p. At 24p or 30p it will offload material to just one SSD at a time, so you could get your shot.
 
So I tried shooting 4k at 60fps RAW with my FS700 and 7Q and it worked out great! However, the FS700 monitor and 7Q monitor were displaying slightly desaturated and flat contrast SLog2 as I expected. But when I looked at the DNG files on my laptop (after doing the ClipMerge, etc), they looked very non-Slog2 like: saturated and contrasty. Is there some processing going on on the 7Q before recording to DNG? Is there a setting to turn that off?
 
What are you viewing in? Anything but Davinci will give you the 709 look from metadata. I think u need a special profile to give you the slog look in ACR. I typically start in Resolve...
 
@cinebuddy, I was just looking at the individual DNG files using Finder on the Mac. I was just surprised to see them non-Slog2 looking.
 
bitnaut said:
@cinebuddy, I was just looking at the individual DNG files using Finder on the Mac. I was just surprised to see them non-Slog2 looking.
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Yeah, that's just how OS X previews the images. It's similar to when you load up a CR2 (Canon RAW) or other RAW file from a DSLR. It's RAW, so it has to be processed in some way to be viewed. But rest assured that if you put it into Resolve, you've got full RAW flexibility and dynamic range.
 
Mitch Gross said:
This is correct that the footage can mix and match on the drive.

Alan, on the FS700 in the Slow & Quick menu you can set the underlying frame rate to 24p or 30p instead of 60p. At 24p or 30p it will offload material to just one SSD at a time, so you could get your shot.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip, Mitch. Unfortunately this was a live event and I barely had time to switch the O7Q to RAW from ProRes, much less dig into the Menu settings. However, for future reference, this could be very, very useful in the future. Thanks again!
 
Does this mean you can set the Slow & Quick mode to 50p (underlying at 25p) and send out at 25p in 4k to the 7q and record in prores? I don't own a 7q but have gone in the menu of the FS700 and set the output to raw 4k (out of curiosity), but when I do the Slow & Quick modes available change from what I usually see and it looks like 50p isn't available anymore (it only appears that Super Slo Mo is available at 100fps., with no Slow & Quick modes at all when in raw 4k output, maybe I'm missing something?) Can you advise?

I'm contemplating either purchasing a 7q(+) or getting a fs7 and selling my FS700. One of my needs is compressed 4k at 50p.

Also is there any news on lower bit rate prores options for the 7q (LT and Proxy for example). Again I'm weighing up the concern of storage space compared to the fs7 (with its long gop xavc 4k option) .

Thank you.
 
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pythonman said:
Does this mean you can set the Slow & Quick mode to 50p (underlying at 25p) and send out at 25p in 4k to the 7q and record in prores? I don't own a 7q but have gone in the menu of the FS700 and set the output to raw 4k (out of curiosity), but when I do the Slow & Quick modes available change from what I usually see and it looks like 50p isn't available anymore (it only appears that Super Slo Mo is available at 100fps., with no Slow & Quick modes at all when in raw 4k output, maybe I'm missing something?) Can you advise?

I'm contemplating either purchasing a 7q(+) or getting a fs7 and selling my FS700. One of my needs is compressed 4k at 50p.

Also is there any news on lower bit rate prores options for the 7q (LT and Proxy for example). Again I'm weighing up the concern of storage space compared to the fs7 (with its long gop xavc 4k option) .

Thank you.
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In the menu, go toOTHERS -> S&Q BUTTON SETTING -> and select S&Q/SUPER SLOW. Now you should have both available.
 
Thanks Mitch. I have it set to both, and when in just internal recording mode (HD only, Raw output disabled) then I do indeed have both options when I press the S&Q button. But if I enable 4K Raw ouput then the S&Q button only allows Super Slow, with no S&Q. The option in the menu (in 'Others') is still set to both I've checked. Are you sure S&Q works in 4K? My FS700 has firmware 3.01. Thank you.
 
Well, you're asking the camera to do two different things with the same memory buffer. I don't think it could store 100p info and at the same time 50p info, could it? So exactly how would you expect this to work?
 
Sorry if I've not been clear. When in standard internal HD mode you can set the slow and quick mode to 50p whilst it records at 25p, resulting in 50% slow motion without having to record at 50p directly and slowing it post. I thought from what was said earlier in this thread that you could do the same with the raw 4k output and having the 7q record at 25p. I'm not talking super slow mo. Have I got that wrong?
 
It cannot do this because the 4K RAW 100p shooting is a burst mode, not continuous shooting. The material is sent to a memory buffer and then played back out at a frame rate the output can fit. So it is no longer functioning as a traditional video camera while in this mode, hence the inability to shoot as you describe. Does that make sense?
 
Sorry if I sound like a broken record. I'm not referring to the 100fps burst mode, I'm not talking about super slo mo. I wanted to know if you could put the FS700 into 'slow and quick' mode of 50p whilst recording at 25p in 4k prores on the 7q. The earlier posts suggested you could. But perhaps you can't. Thanks again for your help.
 
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I think I get it now. You're trying to find a way to get 4K ProRes at 50p via Slow & Quick over 25p? Slow & Quick doesn't work that way when you are shooting in RAW mode. RAW output is always at the speed you set the camera to, pure & simple. The only time it is not is when you use the frame buffer for a burst playback. So shoot the burst at 50 or 100 in PAL territory (60 or 120 in NTSC territory) and play back the buffer (and feed the RAW recorder at either 25p or 50p in PAL (or 24, 30 or 60 in NTSC). So from what I think you're asking me, no it doesn't do that. This mode is only for short 440 frame bursts.
 
Great, thanks for confirming Mitch. Shame it doesn't do that.
In which case, and I know you've been asked this many times, but is the 4k50p/60p prores ability on the 7q likely in the next few weeks/months? Would love to keep the FS700 amd purchase a 7q+, but I shoot a lot of corporate video at 50p and want to move across to 4k and retain that frame rate. And I certainly don't want raw. I appreciate you taking the time to reply to my rambling questions!
 
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