FS7: FS7 somehow recorded a contrasty image without a LUT enabled?

J

jshbckr

Veteran
I am borrowing a friend's Ronin and was just out shooting some tests... I'm a bit frustrated by what I assume is a bug (one that could potentially ruin footage). So I was recording 4K24 with a LUT on the Viewfinder only (pic 1), recording Slog3. I switched to S&Q 1080p for 180fps, still rolling Slog3 (pic 2). Then I switched back to 4K24, the only change I made in the menu was Rec Format changing from 1080p to UHD. And Pic 3 is what was captured to the card. Keep in mind that I'm in CineEI mode, and LUT was "OFF" for all options except Viewfinder. Footage is really ugly and contrasty, highlights blown out and completely unrecoverable. I'm perplexed as to how it happened and I'm really glad it didn't happen on a shoot.

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We went into playback and noticed that those clips were super contrasty compared to the Slog3 shots. I jumped back into camera mode and the Viewfinder said "Slog3" (not LC709A, which was the LUT I had enabled for the Viewfinder), which indicates that it SHOULD have been recording Slog3. And when I put it into Catalyst browse, the metadata still sees it as Slog3, because I get temperature and tint sliders, which don't show up when you burn-in a LUT. I'm really confused.
 
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You dont say if you were using Custom or EI mode.
In custom mode you need to have matrix OFF to get a proper log look. Maybe you were in Custom mode and matrix magically turned on with a bunch of whacko settings.

Simply Im guessing that the change from 1080 to UHD lost you a load of settings.. I know for example that when you change res the shutter angle goes to 300 from wherever it was.

My FS7 has gone bananas a couple of times losing all sorts of settings.. frame lines, WFM lost and the like.

The solution in this case is to do an ALL RESET which takes a week and means a bunch of button pumping to get back where you where.

Now I..

1) Have an ALL FILE loaded with all my prefered settings (on SD card)
2) watch the camera like a hawk for things going wonko

Should (2) happen I then reload my ALL file.

Overall I no keep my WFM on and LUT off.. this may not be the preffered mode of operation but it is simplest and safest.. usually when the camera goes wonk the WFM dissapears. So dissapearing WFM is the notifier to stop, check and probably reload that ALL file.

S
 
This is a bug for sure..

I followed Josh's steps and was able to replicate exactly what he got, a very ugly, contrasty image after switching from HFR back to 4K 24fps. I was able to replicate this several times, although it seems to only be when you use Shutter Angle. When using Shutter Speed, it did not happen.

Also, when you click something that refreshes the screen, like S&Q or Thumnails, the ugly image goes away and it's back to flat S-Log3.
 
I had this happen to me on a shoot a week ago. Fortunately I was recording RAW out to our Odyssey 7Q, so now I just have to figure out how to deal with the 7Q RAW color issues. The raw footage looks unaffected, but the internally recorded stuff looks like it has a bad LUT.

I've been testing this in our studio, but I've been unable to replicate it. When it happened on the shoot, I was switching from recording 2k RAW externally to 4k RAW externally, but I didn't change any of the other settings (internal recording was set to 1080p XAVC-I).

I have another big shoot on Sunday, so here's the question: when this happens, are you able to see the contrast in the viewfinder (assuming you have the viewfinder MLUT Off)? If so, I can watch for it. But if everything looks fine in the viewfinder and it's recording bad files internally, I've got a serious problem.
 
Let's hope the firmware coming on the 15 of March will solve this bugs. It's frustrating to do everything right only to find out that the camera fuks it up.
 
I guess for me since the 7Q is permanently attached to my FS7 and displays the flat profile, it's easy to spot quickly since it's so obvious. But yeah, crappy bug for sure.
 
Oh man that sucks. I feel your pain when you do everything the right way and then you're struck down by random bug.
 
gene_can_sing said:
I was able to replicate this several times, although it seems to only be when you use Shutter Angle. When using Shutter Speed, it did not happen..
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Well, that's the short-term solution right there. Use the speed mode and have peace of mind. There are lot of reasons to use the speed mode instead of angle anyway, so this is just one more on the list.
 
Getting to the point where you need to make an amendment video Doug for your course called 'workarounds and fixes'

I'm losing track of all of them
 
Doug Jensen said:
Well, that's the short-term solution right there. Use the speed mode and have peace of mind. There are lot of reasons to use the speed mode instead of angle anyway, so this is just one more on the list.
Click to expand...
What are all of your reasons? Because honestly I can't think of any. For me, 180º is ideal and I jump between 24fps, 60fps, and 72-180fps so much that I don't want to be bothered with checking my shutter speed to make sure it's correct. Aside from the weird bug on the FS7 where the angle jumps to 300º, the shutter angle is ideal because it is always relative.
 
jshbckr said:
What are all of your reasons? Because honestly I can't think of any. For me, 180º is ideal and I jump between 24fps, 60fps, and 72-180fps so much that I don't want to be bothered with checking my shutter speed to make sure it's correct. Aside from the weird bug on the FS7 where the angle jumps to 300º, the shutter angle is ideal because it is always relative.
Click to expand...

For one thing there are many more shutter speeds available than angles. You get much better slow-mo and time lapse that way. There's no 360 degree shutter, but there is a 1/1 shutter.
 
Ben Scott said:
Getting to the point where you need to make an amendment video Doug for your course called 'workarounds and fixes'

I'm losing track of all of them
Click to expand...


I thought about making that the subtitle of my video. I could have had the project finished weeks soon if the camera worked the way it was supposed to.
 
jshbckr said:
What are all of your reasons? Because honestly I can't think of any. For me, 180º is ideal and I jump between 24fps, 60fps, and 72-180fps so much that I don't want to be bothered with checking my shutter speed to make sure it's correct. Aside from the weird bug on the FS7 where the angle jumps to 300º, the shutter angle is ideal because it is always relative.
Click to expand...

Well, if you're happy with 180 degrees (not fast enough in my opinion) and don't care about having more than just a handful of choices, and don't care about shooting in low-light, and don't care about the speed changing on you unexpectedly, then you should be happy with the angle mode.
 
Doug Jensen said:
Well, if you're happy with 180 degrees (not fast enough in my opinion) and don't care about having more than just a handful of choices, and don't care about shooting in low-light, and don't care about the speed changing on you unexpectedly, then you should be happy with the angle mode.
Click to expand...

I'm confused. I can change the shutter angle to be more open/closed, resulting in choppier motion (faster, like you said you prefer) by going to a smaller angle. If I want to shoot in low-light (and I'm okay with more motion blur) I can increase the angle over 180. But the most important factor to me is staying consistent across all my frame rates. I think it's important to maintain a relative shutter.

Or are you saying you prefer 180 for standard motion but want a faster shutter for high fps? I guess I can see how it's a moot point then, since you'll have to fiddle with the shutter speed regardless. Unless they set it up to just remember your last used setting in each frame rate mode.
 
jshbckr said:
What are all of your reasons? Because honestly I can't think of any. For me, 180º is ideal and I jump between 24fps, 60fps, and 72-180fps so much that I don't want to be bothered with checking my shutter speed to make sure it's correct. Aside from the weird bug on the FS7 where the angle jumps to 300º, the shutter angle is ideal because it is always relative.
Click to expand...

I do like to have the option to lock to 180 degrees, but in low light, I sure like the option to do 360 shutter for that extra stop of light.
 
I don't find it a hassle to press the Shutter button, choose a speed, and press the Select/Set button. What does that take, 5 seconds at most to choose a speed? I can't remember the last time I was in such a hurry I couldn't afford an extra 5 seconds to choose a better shutter speed. I find 1/60 is a better speed for 23.98 on a video camera for motion blur, and it also reduces the chances of seeing flickering or cycling with some lights that shows up quite often at speeds around 1/48-1/50. What's so magical about 180 degrees other than it being a holder over from film? These aren't film cameras and they behave differently, and 1/48 ain't fast enough. And for S&Q Motion, 180 degrees is certainly never fast enough. And in lowlight, 180 degress is often the slowest angle possilbe, but I have several options below that with the speed mode. Personally, I'd always rather take that extra 5 seconds to choose my own speed --- but I totally understand if some people just want to set it and forget it. Just like some people like to do with white balance, focus, or exposure. I am a manual kinda guy I guess.
 
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