Liam Hall
Veteran
Yep. Downsampled 6K producing a real 4K image and autofocus will become must-haves in the mid-tier. It will be a slower uptake than with the FS7 though IMHO.
Other: FS7/FX9/EOS vs Red for Business reasons?
- Thread starter Airwolf
- Start date
Yep. Downsampled 6K producing a real 4K image and autofocus will become must-haves in the mid-tier. It will be a slower uptake than with the FS7 though IMHO.
You charge more for 4K.. that would lose me work very quickly ..
.. yes not such a big change ..but thats what I mean .. there is no sane logic to it.. it will requested by people who have no idea about it.. but they will want it.. because they have heard how amazing it is.. maybe then even googled it and saw some videos..their mates or rivals have shot 6K sensor.. BTW I do think you can see it quite clearly .. but yes its not a massive difference .. But it will become the BUZZ.. Sony and Canon will push it big time.. its already happened in the feature world .. Arri LF mini all the rage.. $60K same as digibeta cost.. its going to happen ..Yes agreed ..I think AF will take much longer or maybe never to get into the high end ..maybe steadicam ? but the larger sensor in general I think will come on fast.. high end already .. Red/Venice/Arri LF and especially the Mini LF.. ok they can record 6k raw too.. but that Buzz or BS will filter down .. every corporate / music video Spielberg with delusions of grandeur .. and there are many !.. will want it.. so much image and posing in this business as we know.. its almost guaranteed ..
You charge more for 4K.. that would lose me work very quickly ..
I’m in the medium to medium high tier in terms of rates from what I can see from other operators I work with and producers. I also edit most jobs, so I’m mostly shooting for myself and I think I deliver a pretty good product so I’m confident to say to most corporate clients that we can do 4k, but I’ll need to charge you for rental.
If it’s an agency directly then I’d take the hit for the rental, but maybe I’d just add it into my day rate. As there’s still a bit of flexibility where I am situated in the market.
I also have a lot of gear when I work, so they probably feel they are getting good value with all the tools I bring to the job...and of course are happy with the product... that said the reason I’m interested in this post is it’s getting time to upgrade. The no 1 thing I want apart from 10 bit is multiple outs so I can have an EVF and the client isnt forced to watch my zebras and the rest... best piece of kit is my small HD focus, and new Duzi v4
Sorry I wasn't passing any judgment on your work, but I think in the larger picture,. not sure where you are.. as a freelance DP anyway .. to say you have to rent gear and pass that cost onto a client to shoot 4K..just wont fly in this day and age.. its very common place I think now ,I would actually shoot more 4K than HD.. its almost the norm.. for cropping in.. /green screen ..and simply because it doesnt cost anymore so they might as well.. storage being so cheap now.. unless its a long doc..as the fx9 is not much more than the fs7II ,I would think it would be a good option for you.. as its a fair bit cheaper than the C500II..
All good Donny, appreciate the conversation. As Dan said, it all depends on your local market and clients, so that’s why I’ve been fine with HD. Yes c500mk2 is out of my price range. I was recently sent some EVA footage and was really impressed, so EVA 2 of c300mk3 or URSA mini once they get high ISO, is more my price point. I also have to buy a b-cam to replace my 80D.
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This about sums it up, for the regular paying work- corporate, branding etc. I'm a C300M2 owner and I use the FS7/FS7M2 more than my C300M2- because a number of clients (very large corporations) own a ton of FS7's. No one likes mixing Sony and Canon- at least I don't.
I disagree with everyone about the FX9 and C500M2, about the full frame. For starters, both can shoot APS-C right? Both cameras are a nice improvement over the predecessors. If you are in the market for a new camera, the new feature sets make them worthwhile. As long as they have fully functional Super35 sensor areas they can play with the older cameras, older lenses, without too much work in post. Just saying, if your are determined to buy something, stay current, not with old tech/ old aesthetics. None of my clients, for years, have elected to shoot RAW- Prores is the #1 choice of Codec, (also using Shoguns on almost every shoot- which I dislike) and all edit departments will pretty much use any codec.
I disagree with everyone about autofocus. With the C300M2 I don't use autofocus- because it's not reliable enough. I do however use the focus assist feature with face detect which has become invaluable with my middle aged eyesight. Corporate clients simply don't hire ACs. On small web pilots I can get an AC without question- but that's narrative. On higher paying narrative work I always have two ACs. On better paying higher end corporate work it's an argument to get an AC so I stopped asking for them. (ie: Corporate mentality- they will hire a 3 ton truck package before they hire an AC) Once autofocus becomes reliable enough, I will use it and it's going to be the norm.
Apparently the DJI Osmo is gaining a ton of traction in the corporate realm- selfies. Something to keep tabs on.
RED has been virtually dead for me for a few years now. Too many cheaper/better options. (I did rent several Epic Dragons for a multicamera shoot I produced, so take what I said with a grain of salt- it was an all inclusive package deal and it was easier on the budget- place owed me a favor.)
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Doug Jensen
Carbonite Member
Why do you suppse they would specifiy an iPhone? I can see a client specifying a certain type of camera, or a specific high-end model of camera, but why would a client specifically request a low-end, non-traditional device for shooting professional video? If someone offered to provide a Venice or Alexa at the same price, they wouldn't get hired? If it is a certain "look" they are after, then why does it have to be an iPhone. Can't a Samsung phone achieve the same look? I don't get it.
theraptor56
Active member
I see lots of ads from social media experts claiming that more polished video doesn't do as well on social media channels because it can look too professional. The thinking is if a company wants their content to blend in with what social media users are seeing on their devices it should be shot using the same devices everyone else is using. I imagine that's what Rolls Royce was going for with this request. Seeing a brand like that go for that line of thinking is a bit surprising though. If any brand shouldn't be lowering themselves to the lowest common denominator I think it'd be Rolls Royce.
Doug Jensen
Carbonite Member
I agree completely about the wrong style of production for a premium brand like Rolls. I'd love to hear what they are thinking. Probably specified by some dumb ass that doesn't know anything about branding or marketing.
Jim Feeley
Veteran
Maybe they're still envious of former (?) siblings Bentley and that 2015 advert/promo that was shot on an iPhone (and a whole lot of other kit and a top crew)?
Liam Hall
Veteran
The scripts said iPhone, but what they meant was 'user-generated.' This job was through an agency who specialize in recruitment advertising. The scripts didn't scream user-generated to me, just seemed silly, which is while I told them to jog on.
Liam Hall
Veteran
Most of my clients want their work to stand-out on social media platforms, not to blend-in. User-generated has its place, these scripts weren't that place though.
Doug Jensen
Carbonite Member
I would have done the same.
I don't think anyone should pick a raw cinema camera like a Red over more common video camera alternatives for general commercial work unless you have a serious artistic interest in the aesthetic range and flexibility working with deep raw formats offers. There are advantages, but the workflow and learning curve can be demanding. They are not necessarily friendly to quick turnaround short production schedules and small budgets.
Log video and raw lite options like Canon, Sony, Panasonic, and BM offer are something of a middle path that is easier to learn for the novice looking for more aesthetic flexibility. But for most low end commercial work, shooting standard video codecs and paying attention to what is in front of the lens in terms of lighting and production values is still the better path.
Let your market and your clients drive an appropriate choice.
Log video and raw lite options like Canon, Sony, Panasonic, and BM offer are something of a middle path that is easier to learn for the novice looking for more aesthetic flexibility. But for most low end commercial work, shooting standard video codecs and paying attention to what is in front of the lens in terms of lighting and production values is still the better path.
Let your market and your clients drive an appropriate choice.
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This was a stunt as this "special " addition Bentley came with a MacBook Pro set into the passenger seat tray table.. and so I imagine Apple insisted on getting maximum PR value.. they spent a fortune in post to get it looking like it did..
^ Exactly this. Well said.